After lengthy chat with my vet.. we suspect kelda has damaged her cruciate ligament . Now shes only 12 months old and hes verrrrry wary of surgery to sort this out, we think its only partially damaged not totally f--d up... (she is say 2/10ths lame after warming up/moving around a bit... but 9/10s lame just after she gets up from lying down for a while..)

Anyone got any experience of this in a dog of this age? Shes fairly small and dainty for the breed/age (well shes 30 inches last i measured but shes the elegant type, hehe like her mother).

For now, nother week of metacam, attempting to prevent boinging and then see vet again..

Hi Emmabeth
Our Lurcher had a cruciate ligament problem. It was very severe and she was in a great deal of pain and couldn't use her leg at all. She was 8 at the time and we did consider not putting her through the operation. However, our local vet happens to be something of an expert in this particular type of injury and he has a technique for repair that isn't generally accepted. I think it involves using skin from elsewhere to repair the ligament. He has found than most cruciate ligament operations done this way last longer (better for a young dog?) and perform better. Well we were very pleased although we were always worried about letting Tousie do too much and we never put her in for agility again. She also had an intensive course of hydrotherapy, where she did longer and longer swims against a fast current. This really helped her recovery. I suppose six months later she was pretty much back to normal and we don't regret getting it done at all. I don't really know what the alternative would be, her leg was useless.
If we were in the same position again we would have the operation without a doubt. Although I would probably want it done in the same way (I think that our vet is the only one working this way). I seem to think it cost hundreds, certainly not thousands, and we claimed on the insurance.

I think glucosamine tablets may also help.

Good luck
Rob

Mack sends his sister a big cuddle. Sorry to hear about this. Hope you get a good outcome.

oh no Em!!

I will call you this week

it may be worth contacting your insurance co and see if they'll agree to an MRI...I can't fault the staff at Chester, and a firm diagnosis is required as she is so young and shouldn't have any unneccessary surgery


~~ Liz ~~

Tis petplan we are with and yus i shall see about the MRI stuff and i am going to be talking to the vet on tuesday after we try a weeks worth of a slightly lower dose of metacam. He is nice vet, very sound and sensible He immediately said IF she needs surgery hed refer to a specialist.

He is very keen to avoid surgery for her if at all possible, so have no fear.... no surgery mad vets are getting near her in a hurry!

Madam herself cares not a jot for being slightly three legged, and wonders why i am trying to nail her little paws down to the floor and stop her boinging around... to her it is a mere inconvenience an doesnt appear to slow her down even a little bit... the little moo! From wot the vet said and what i have looked up the other night, by the way shes walking IF its cruciate ligament.. its only partial, so fingers x that thats right! As if its partial damage she may well not need surgery at all.

Hi Emmabeth

Fingers crossed for you and deerhound - I hope that she doesn't need surgery as it is so worrying when they go through a procedure. I know how worried I was when Clunie had to have what was to have been a small amputation to her tail and ended up having half her tail off.
Good Luck
Vicky

Wellllllllll.... long day today - been to the specialist vets that my vets referred us to.

Mucho watching her walk, and then feeling it, and then manipulating it some more (which she really hated poor girl, pinned on her side with a muzzle on - she got a cheese burger all to herself to make up for that!!!)

Her patella is moving more than it should - the vet reckons from this examination that its only grade 1, its slipping out of the groove and onto the ridge, but not off the ridge and totally sideways (as is frequently seen in jack russels and yorkies etc when they 'skip' along on three legs from time to time).

He thinks shes damaged one of the ligaments that holds the patella in place, rather than the cruciate ligament as although her limpy gait screams cruciate injury, there is no swelling or soft tissue damage or scar tissue that would go alongside that...

Soooo..... trekking back to runcorn tomorrow am with her, they are going to xray and manipulate the joint under anaesthetic so they can get a clearer picture of what is going on with it...

Gawd bless petplan insurance!!!!

Best of luck and I hope it isn't too serious.

Gah did a big post last night but it seems to have been eaten by the net-goblins...

Ok so...much staring at xrays... in no particular order.

1/ There is some degree of arthritic change to the patella of the affected limb.
2/There is significant swelling in the affected joint
3/ The degree of luxation of the affected patella remains grade 1.
4/ In manipulating the other leg for comparison, under GA the UNaffected patella luxates further than the affected one. But when concious, her muscle tone prevents it being moved at all... any ideas what that actually means?
5/ Her leg bones are lovely and straight, hips great (stunning where his actual words), growth plates closed where they ought be closed etc.. no bending or twisting visible that would lead to ligaments being wrongly aligned and pulling the patella out of place..
6/ The trochlear groove that the patella sits in is correctly formed (if it wasnt this would explain luxating patella, this is what is missing/mal formed in those breeds that commonly suffer luxating patella)
7/Under anaesthetic, he cannot find any instability in the affected knee that would suggest cruciate ligament.... but the swelling in the joint (2) suggests it may have been damaged.

Additionally, IF she has only injured the the ligament involved in holding the patella in place, then this is 'weird'.. as it looks like its been torn in a sideways twisting movement... which would have involved the lower limb twisting in relation to the upper... and would have damaged the cruciate...

So.. if its just the patellar ligament then mendy that, job done.

If its cruciate as well.. then theres a couple of problems - one being she will need two ops - two being good ole munney - insurance covers 4K a year.. weve already spent nearly 3k by the time they do the arthroscopy!!!! TPLO op on the cruciate.. well thats megabucks.

*sells OH's kidneys on ebay*

So does that mean that you do the arthroscopy to see if it is the cruciate?

Yep, arthroscopy will clarify whats going on as obviously the ligaments dont show up on xray (though the swelling does).. so htat will clear up both the best way to fix the problem we know is there (patellar ligament) and whether or not the cruciate is buggered.

Please all cross fingers that she has bizarrely not got a knackered cruciate...!

Hope she's ok. Emmabeth. It's always a worry when your baby goes for surgery. Our thoughts are with you !

So sorry to hear about your dog Emmabeth, hope all works out for the best.

Fingers crossed Emmabeth, and toes, that everything ends well.

Thought i ought update this...

Sorry its been a while ive been busy with personal stuff recently (my mother died a month ago and things have been a bit hectic since then).

Kelda DIDNT rupture her cruciate ligament - what she did was damage the soft tissue that holds the patella in place on one side... so the other side with the intact tissue was strong and pulled it out of place.

That meant full extention of the joint was painful and thus she was lame.

So - they repaired that 3 weeks ago and she was on metacam and doing well until a week ago when she fell over being a pillock (having escaped into the garden off lead!!) and her knee swelled up like a balloon and was very hurty and she was a Very Sad Hound Indeed!

Anyway shes had her stitches out and the vet says shes not done any further damage just scared herself and we are gradually building up her exercise slooooooowwwwwwly - much to her annoyance as shed quite like to go galloping about and so what if the leg hurts she can run just as fast on three ta very much indeed..

Stroppy teenage hound bitches huh!

So fingers x for her recovery and no more silly falling down incidents, and that her fur grows back cos shes bald from top of thigh to hock! Like a mad reverse poodle gone wrong thing. (she says its very very undignified for a hound of her bearing and ancestry).

Emmabeth I am very sorry to hear about your Mother. Mine too passed away this year. I am glad though to hear that Kelda's injury is getting better. Wishing a speedy recovery

Sorry to hear about your mum - hope things are starting to get better for you and for Kelda

Really sorry to here that. Condolences from Me and Elise