I have two beloved deerhounds they are brothers I have had Kes for over a year and purchased his brother Glen 8 months ago from the breeder, Glen had lumps on his elbows at first they have gone now house maids knee the vet said due to him lying on a hard surface, now however he has started with aggressive attacks the vet suspects epilepsy and Glen is now on 240mgs of ephiphen a day , this is not stopping the aggression it only happens at night and is not a typical seizure ,Kes and I are both scared of Glen he snarles and snaps if u move , Kes knows when Glen is going to start and Kes will remove himself from the room I am at my wits end and dont know what to do it is affecting Kes, the vet now wants to do liver tests for a parasite does anyone out there have any experience of this.
hopefully Trish

Hi Trish - welcome to the site, sorry that you found us under such difficult circumstances.
One of our elderly Lurchers has what you might call typical epileptic seizures - although they are almost certainly not due to epilepsy. One thing we have noticed is that after the fit she appears to be blind - have you found that also? She is also partially deaf and sometimes after a fit she can be aggressive if you approach her. We think this is because she is so confused, blind and deaf - very vulnerable. Nearly all her fits have been whilst asleep - although in the daytime.

We don't really have any answers. We just support her whilst in the throws of the seizure to stop her hurting herself then keep away from her until she comes back to her senses- 10 to 15 mins this is when she can be aggressive. Then she needs comfort for an hour or more. We have a child's playpen cornering off a part of the room, so we can lock her in post seizure so she feels safe. She has seizures every few weeks. So not that often really.

I'm sure that its totally different to your situation, but I thought I would tell you how we cope, in case any of it is useful.

Our dog also has lumps on her elbows, we never considered a link though.

Good luck
Rob

I'd want to know a bit more about how Glen behaves with his brother during the day - just wondering if this is possibly more of a behaviour/male dominance problem than a disease? In any event, it must be dreadful for you and Kes to live with this situation and I really hope your vet can get to the bottom of it soon for the sake of everyone concerned. Have you discussed it with the dogs' breeder and does he/she have any information that might help to give a fuller picture? I know if these were my puppies I'd want to know what was going on and do what I could to help resolve matters. Please keep us up to speed, Trish.

Hi Trish - what an awful situation for you all. I cannot help as I've no experience of what you are experiencing but I do hope that you can resolve it. I will be watching this thread with interest...

The lumps on the elbows are most often caused by too hard surfaces, or simply clumsiness.
Are the attacks of Glen directed towards Kes? Or towars humans too?
Twwo male brothers can get an issue about who is in charge of the command, and when they are of the same age, ranking is not easy.
I can only add to that I too would like to know the answers on the questions Sid made. I see a behaviour problem here.

Dog epilepsy is more like the dog loosing control of itself, or just like short blackouts. I am a littel concerned about medications when there is no sure evidence that it is epilepsy.

Hi Trish and welcome. How awful to be going through this. I wish I could add something to help but I haven't experienced anything like you have said. I too would be interested to know how the brother act during the day etc and am interested to know if the vet finds anything.

We have been in touch with the breeder she has no epilepsy in her bloodlines, but we are also considering the possibilty of a behaviour issue , Glen was in an outside kennel for a year, when we first had him he was all over the place, he is settling down bit by bit , we also now think it is an alpha male thing going on, Glen is always the aggressor, during the day they are fine Glen does have a go at Kes now and again but Kes holds his own, Kes is a sweet man and the most loving and gentle boy and love him to bits , he looks so sorry sometimes it breaks your heart Glen to can be loving, my daughter has ben up for a week and she has a border terrier Glen has had no problem with him he still growls and snaps at Kes, my vet has told us that deerhounds dont do anasthetic very well we were wondering about having Glen neutered, can they do him under a local anasthetic does anyone know we will try anything to sort this, thankyou all for your support.

I thought that Deerhounds just needed a different anasthetic to other dogs, the same as they give to greyhounds, they can't have barbiturate based drugs but I believe that there is are alternatives.

In saying that however I have heard from several sources that neutering a male Deerhound will not address aggression problems.

I suspect that the problem is more an issue of dominance and that Glen is trying hard to be top dog. He probably needs bringing down a peg or two in the pecking order but I can't be more helpful I'm afraid, its probably a case for the dog whisperer. He may also of course be jealous of Kes.

My dog Ben was sometimes difficult when he was young, he would growl and snap at night if you trod on him and he would lay in the most difficult of places. He also got a bit quick to react to dogs that threatened him following several occasions when he was bitten by other dogs. We just persevered with him and he has slowly got much better.

Please forgive my ignorance but Glen is on Epiphen 240mgs of a phenobarbitone drug why can they not take this type of drug what effect may it lead to do you know what drug they use to neuter greyhounds do you think having him neutered may minimise the dominance he is showing towards Kes.

I asked my cousin yesterday what signs her dog shows when she is about to have a epileptic fit, and if she was aggressive with it.
She said she isnt aggressive, she just looks like she is going to attack, she acts all strange. She is on Epiphen and thy tried to take her off and do homeopathic remedies, she started fitting almost immediately so they put her back on it.
She also said there is another illness similar to eplilepsy, so her vet tested her BEFORE giving her Epiphen, to make sure she got the right treatment.
Sorry I know not alot about canine epilepsy, but asked her as I had read it on here the day before, I do hope you get the problem sorted and make sure the vets tests for Epilepsy rather than just treat him to for it.

Hi Trish, you havnt mentioned how old the dogs are or if either has been used at stud. Do they live in fairly confined conditions and how mutch free running do they get, and if they play together,how do they interact with each other?
If they are youngsters ,the problem is unlikely to be medical,and more likely a dominance issue which castrating probably might not resolve. I don,t fancy holding a
Deerhound during that proceedure using local. Have you got the facilities to keep them totally separate for a few days to enable you to monitor his behaviour?

I have just re read the original post and am not sure if Epilepsy is a night time thing! It sounds more male dominance to me and apart from castrating him there won't be alot your vet can do for it. You have to deal with it. When you say you are scared of him, once he has seen this, he's won. You have to be the dominant one and not allow him to intimidate you or Kes in any way. You will probably always get the more dominant one in any pack. My DH is the dominant one in his 'pack', we have a Border Terrier, who is as feisty as they come out of the house, but submissive in the house, though Murphy is never aggressive with him (he'll happily share his tea or a bone)
Do you just have the two males, or is there a bitch in the household? Do they share a bed or have seperate beds? I would seperate them at night if possible and be strong and firm with him.

live on a farm can only have free time when no one else is out but that is very early in the morning and late at night, never been used for stud and no bitch in the house, does anyone about parasites in the liver glen having a blood test at last for this parasite I dont beleive it is epilepsy I think he has not had much stimulation until we got him and his social skills are rubbish, he lived in a kennel outside for a year previously,he great with the cats and allows the chickens to pinch his dinner ha ha

I will be v. interested to hear the results of Glens liver tests considering he,s lived
in a kennel most of his life. You have,nt said how old they are.
Sounds like you,ve pretty well answered the question yourself and separation for a few days would confirm. Its usualy best to look at the basics first before spending loads on expenive tests! Also live on a farm so am aware of constraints but also but there are opportunities to develope this dog.

They are 18 months old and he goes back to the vet end of december, for liver tests and to see about having him neutered , cannot let them loose as people around here are frightened of them but they look fantastic when in full flight , tend not to come back too if on the trail of a rabbit of which there are hundreds where I live in Northumberland, Kes is a couch potato, he has the sofa ,I have the armhair Glen hides the coal fire from us all ha ha , I have really appeciated your comments , when faced with a vet , firing information and pills at you , it is difficult to be objective at times.

Just a thought, another possibility for seizures can be onset of a severe allergy, or sudden allergic reaction. Years ago I had a Poodle, (my son's) she was in the garden with me, and she was happily eating raspberries off the branches. When we went in the house I noticed Taffy had a swollen cheek....within an hour it worsened and I put cold compresses on it, but then hair fell out on half her face. I took to our best vet and he gave her antihisimines...which I continued at home. It turned out a berry she ate had a wasp in it and she had a horrible reasction. Not long after she developed seizures, again to the vet and he thought she had epilepsy, quite possibly brought on by the wasp sting in her mouth, causing a disruption in her natural immunity and central nervous system.
She was only about 10 at the time and lived to 17..happy little girl all the way.