Recently sold all my Deerhound x Collie pups,to lovely homes.
Largest dog pup has gone to an un-experienced home,never had a dog before.
Recall is great,toilet training complete,sits and stays(mostly),and relaxes by the fire of an evening.
Lady owner has two problems.
When playing last week,she smacked the dog for ripping her trousers.Result was a bite to the hand.I have said that this is not acceptable behaviour and should not be tolerated in a family pet.
The first question is this: what is the best way to stop this reaction from the dog,or is it just puppy behaviour that will fade away on its own?
The second problem is this:Puppy will take orders from the owner,but not from her 10 yr old child,and treats the child as he would a smaller sibling(biting,playing,running off etc).
What is the best way to establish the child's higher standing in the hierarchy?

Sorry must add, pup is 12 weeks old.

If i got a play bite from a puppy I would hold the muzzle and give it a slight squeeze with a very firm NO!! You only need to do a few times and the 10 year old can do it also which will reinforce the fact that the child is also in charge.. It's not about hurting the puppy it's about letting it know that puppy biting is unacceptable.

In answer to your question it won't fade away you just end up with a larger puppy with bigger teeth doing the same which can be painful. They should stop the puppy doing it now.



I wouldn't smack a puppy - that is very unfair.

Their mothers usually scruff them up, that is what I always did, give him a shake by the scruff of the neck. The pup see's the 10 year old as a playmate, if he is like my kids then rules go out the window, they feed him from the table and play fight in the garden, then wonder why he is begging food and jumping up and being rough with them when they don't want to play. Kids!
It is all or nothing I am afraid, the 10 yr old has to realise rules are rules.

It always seems worse when the pup is a large breed, people have this with little dogs and it is laughed at. He will grow out of it, just have to be firm.

MrsMc wrote:


Afraid to say this was no play bite.Very deep gashes to hand,accompanied by growling.

I imagine then that was quite scary to someone that hasn't owned dogs before.

Must add that we had no problems in the 9 weeks we had the pup.

Yes she was very worried when she rang. I suggested that she scruffed the pup in future.
So far no repeats 2 weeks on. Just worries me that he may be a "wrong 'un"
Although saying that,in the situation,the dog was just protecting itself,but it still concerns me.

I don't know...smacking a puppy? Bugs me. I'm with MrsMc here - hold the muzzle, slight squeeze with a firm "no" and the point is made. Good insights on kid behaviour Lurch. Don't think that anyone, dog included, meant harm.

I remember my 2nd deerhound as a young pup kept "growling" around my children. That is until I realized it was merely his nature to make grumbling noises! Not a growl at all. And we've been immersed in dogs all our lives! Easy to see how a newbie might get the wrong end of the stick so to speak.

Still feel like rolling up a newspaper and chasing the puppy smacker around the garden. Sorry. And why is the puppy stuck in the garage next to the car? Hmmmm.

Great advice Ironstone.
As to the garage next to the car thing..
Hope this picture makes it clearer

Wow! I heard you guys over there had been downsizing to smaller vehicles but you've gone too far! Have you considered North American cars?

My Morag, when small tore my trousers with her needle baby teeth when she was chasing me in the garden. I got hold of her on both sides of her head so that she was made to look at me and bellowed NO loudly at her a couple of times and then ignored her for a few minutes. She hasn't done it again. Luck maybe. Smacking a 12 week old pup only teaches it that it's owner can hurt it.

A bite with those needle like puppy teeth wouldn't take much to tear the skin. It is behaviour that has to stop but also for a first time dog owner it would be easy to confuse this with real agression. Just think about how babies can bite a finger very painfully and toddlers can give their friends nasty bites until they have learnt better. I had complaints from my sons play group about him biting but he grew out of it and has had no issues recently. (He's 40 now)

The hard part is training the child who has not grown up with dogs. They are going to need support from you Hairybeastie. I hope this incident will not put them off dog ownership.

Also I don't believe in "wrong uns" If an adult dog has aggressive behaviour problems it has been learnt from somewhere, owners, environment?

Good luck

Wendy

Sounds like normal puppy behavour, tbh if she had smacked me i would have bitten her!

If the pups getting ott, i would get her to do times outs,
so the pup calms down, if she has a crate then time outs in there,
if not - its better to just walk away and shut the door, leving the pup in the room,
for a few mins to let it calm down, because the pup is now an only dog, its probably why there seeing this behavour, as theres no other pup for it to play fight with,
scruffing can make the situation worse, if the pup is already irate, a bitch dosent scruff a pup,the most a bitch will do - is snapp at the pup, to frighten it,
at 12 weeks i would get them to get that puppy out with other pups/ young dogs,
that way it burns some of its energy off and learns some lessions,

When Layla came to me at 8 months old, she had learned nothing - and was nipping and mouthing, at 8 months and 29" there would have been no way i could ever scruff her,
getting hold of her muzzle, made her bounce all over me, the only way she learned
was by realising if she mouthed me, i left her.


The child, i would start by getting the child to do some training with the pup,
do some of the feeding and help to walk it, that way the pup see's the child
as one of the providers, hirate games and play fighting anything like that - i would get them to stop and just play calm games.

Makes a lot of sense to me..thanks Jane.

In fact,thanks everyone for their input.
Interesting that nobody thinks this is the fault of the pup...

I agree with Jane. Both Mum and child should start going to training. This will give them confidence in handling their pup. The pup would have got a scare from the smack which is why it reacted the way it did.
The pup would not have known why it was suddenly hurt...

I see no worth at all in smacking the poor puppy - sounds like normal puppy play to me - it is testing the boundaries and if it senses that owners are afraid it will end up thinking it controls the family.

Puppy training classes and pack leaders rules (body language ect) should be done.

Another way of telling a puppy they are biting too hard is by just give a short , high pitched shriek and withdraw ( your attention ) - this is how puppies mostly learn from each other initially at least and works extremely well in my household ....! Btw , never saw a " dog-ma" scruff her pups , only to carry them , they are usually very tolerant , perhaps go away and in the end growl , rarely do they snap , and if so , it is well measured and only after lots of other " warning signs " . Smacking an excited , boisterous pup will do no good at all imo - the method Wendys described might work well , too , just , with totally unexperienced dogowners I would be a bit concerned , that they overdo it and spoil a great dog . Going to a training class with positive methods will be a great idea ( perhaps clicker training ???) .
Pretty sure smacking and all that (violent ) sh...t ( sorry ) will work , but , it is not necessary and always reflects bad on the people who do it , at least imo - grew up that way , being told that one has to show " dominance that way " and always felt very bad about it , found my way to much nicer , truly enjoiable ( for both sides , owners and dogs alike ) methods .
Hope all works out fine and the little tike will be happy at this home and his people with him !

Thanks everyone for your great advice..Glad to know it's not my puppy's fault,made me think a bit.
Will go and see the lady over the next few days and impart what's been said,and stay a while to see a training session and supervize for a bit..

Completely agree with WendyS - Dogs are made "bad" not born that way. If I thought there were no rules or guidelines, and someone hit me, then I'd probably try to hit them back. There are many personality types - confident, shy, fearful, passively dominant (like all good momma dogs). How we respond to the different dogs is important - as momma dog will know.
Puppies will work out by play who is above who in the pecking order, but if you watch them together, you will see that the pup that squeaks is the pup that is submitting to a litter mate, so shrieking is going to show you as lower, not in charge of the situation.
As a pup (or any adult dog, come to that) joins a household ("pack") it will observe the rest of the pack and slot itself in accordingly. If the pup is in the family then it will see itself as a sibling to the child. As the pup grows up (age, not just size!) it will look at where it can move to. The accepted order is: adults, dogs, children and then visitors. This doesn't mean that dogs get to be the boss of kids or visitors, but that they will not necessarily take orders from members of these levels of the pack. On this basis I would not expect a child to be able to control the dog. It might be able to trade behaviours and perform tricks for treats, but that's not a dog that is accepting of any degree of control.
Your pup's family need to be speaking to an experienced and professionally trained behaviourist (not a pet trainer from a club) who can give you a "certain-sure" assessment of the pup's temperament, and then give them advice on how to handle the pup accordingly.