Well, since we're onto Lurchers here's an article added about Lurchers in agility www.scottish-deerhound.co...hers-in-agility

Sid - I noted in a seperate post (lure coursing I think) you mentioned a Deerhound doing agility I'd be really interested to find out more. I really enjoyed competing at agility arguably more fun than showing. But Marra is now 13 and too old to manage the pounding on the agility contact equipment and Hettie just won't entertain the idea ... maybe Banrigh could give it a go instead!

Elise, years ago, when our kids were tots, we used to go to Lurcher shows! Off we all used to go, brother in laws and their kids, Lurchers in back of car and a picnic and we had a brilliant time. We used to put them in agility shows and considering it wasn't something that we ever practised, they did really well, it was all fun. Not sure it was more fun than showing, some of the characters there were a bit, well, dodgy! You wouldn't have bought a 2nd hand car off of them!!!
There are agility clubs and I think it is www.lurcherworld.co.uk is the website to have a look at for future shows.

We have been reading some of the information of the crossing of breeds to produce lurchers.This cocerns me as I am a long time advocate of preserving pure breeds.I have in my life produced some amazing purebred Arabian Horses and many very lovely solid tempermented hounds.Is no one at all concerned that the breeding of lurchers seems very "willy nilly".There seems to be no concern for recessive genes,temperment issues,and other health problems.

The Deerhound who does agility is Lyart Ye Gods (Elmo) who belongs to Jo and Mike Jackson. She's Tavish, Dileas and Callie's sister, and a lovely wee lass she is. Jo and Mike live in Derbyshire and also have Gandalf the lurcher, who does obedience as well.

As to Cassandra's query about lurcher breeding, I don't agree that it's willy-nilly, so much as breeding for a specific task. Docile temperament is of less value to a working dog than it is to a pet who has to live with people, and indeed a certain measure of sharpness is probably an asset for some lurcher work. It doesn't make them unfit for purpose, just unfit for pet life; a completely different thing.

One of the most beautiful lurchers I ever saw was the local racehorse trainer's Fly, who was three quarters Greyhound and quarter Deerhound. He was quite a big lad, Greyhound fawn in colour, with a rough coat and dark eyes and combined all the good points of both breeds. Fly was a complete sweetie, as fit as a flea and according to his owner, the best hare coursing dog he'd ever had. He used to play with my first Deerhound, and put up with his puppyish pestering with a good grace.

Sid wrote:


I agree entirely. I think maybe this is why rescue lurchers make good pets, because the have often been rejected as working dogs. The thing they lack for working is the thing that makes them good as pets. Just a theory...

ok..let me try to be clear. I said before that we in Canada do not see alot of lurchers. I've heard of one in Sask. that farmer supposedly had to kill coyotes. Some of you say they are good for 'work' what type of work do they do that no other breed is designed for. My concern is all the 'new' 'designer type' dogs we are seeing here. I find it sad that people see fit to create 'Labradodles" etc. There are so many alread breeds out there, many requiring good homes - as we are all painfully aware of. Crossbreeding can lead to serious consequences later on. There doesn't seem to be a set 'formula' for the outline or breed - as a Lurcher. Any sighthound.?..then bedlington?..or border collie?..what else is permitted into the mix. Honestly..we here just are not familiar with this mix and mate.

If Lurchers make such good pets...why then does it seem there so many ending up in 'resue'. Please clarify for us across the pond. I am not..repeat not, trying tp upset any lurcher owners, only trying to find out the facts behind the 'breed'... as it were. Regards,
Cassandra

First of all, lurchers aren't a breed as such, they're a type, pretty much like most of our pedigree breeds started out. They're a designer dog, sure, but designed for hunting. The mix used will depend on what the dog is required to hunt - Whippet x Bedlington terrier makes a good rabbit/rat dog, for example. Lurchers are as much subject to fashion as any other dog - the Deerhound look used to be the thing, then it was Saluki crosses. However, probably the best all-round lurcher would be three quarters Greyhound, with the other quarter Bearded Collie, Deerhound, Bedlington, Saluki or whatever other breed is considered to produce the goods. Lurcher work is basically coursing, but mostly on the wrong side of the law.
If you can beg/borrow/steal or find on www.usedbooksearch.co.uka copy of Brian Plummer's lurcher books (The Complete Lurcher is a good one to start with) and take them with a pinch of salt, they're a good source of information about the type.

Can't add much more Cassandra than Sid has mentioned. But I'll just give my opinion on why these dogs are often in rescue centres. As Sid said these dogs are/were bred for hunting and the type of quarry e.g. rabbits dictated the type of dogs you used. Any yes you often breed lurcher to lurcher and many lurcher breeders know the 'pedigrees' of Lurchers as well as any Kennel Club registered dog. However, these dogs are primarily bred to work and if they don't prove successful for whatever reason, like Greyhounds who just don't make the grade in racing, they are often looking for other homes as some (not all) lurcher breeders will not keep a dog who can't earn his keep or won't take a dog they've breed back if it doesn't work out in the home they went to.

This, wouldn't necessarily be a problem if there were other people able to give home to these dogs. However, Lurchers in the UK were not seen as pets but as working dogs. They were often not seen as attractive or able to be housetrained etc. Basically, people would not entertain the idea of taking these dogs on and would prefer even if they were going for a rescue dog a black Labrador type or something else that had a reputation of being good with children and good pets.

This is now changing due in part to a lot of hard work hound rescue people have put in to promote these dogs. Often using TV celebrities too to help promote the dogs as good pets - which they undoubtably are. So now actually having a lurcher or greyhound pet is quite 'trendy'.

So looking at it simplistically the numbers of lurchers in rescues is due to breeders not taking responsibility for keeping the dogs if they're not successful at hunting or get injured and yes potentially overbreeding here too and the public not wanting these dogs for pets.

I do think though this is changing. Lurchers and greyhounds are now very much seen as acceptable dogs to have in the home and breeding these dogs is becoming more responsible.

I love lurchers and have competed with mine at shows, racing, agility and Canix and keeping them alongside Deerhounds works well. I appreciate though if you've not come accross the UK lurchers before everything can get confusing.

All the best Cassandra

Yep, Sid and Elise have said it all, but just a little something else I wanted to add, our silly laws in this country of banning hunting meant alot of dogs were 'discarded'.
As I said in previous threads, before buying our DH, my husband wanted another Lurcher and after searching high and low we couldnt find a litter anywhere (well, one in Northampton, but the mother didnt look like a good Lurcher to me!)
I never thought of rescue centres to be honest, but also, having children to consider, I am wary of aquiring a dog that I know little of the history of, who knows if someone hasn't put a dog in welfare because it has bitten a child???
I suppose if you live in a country where they are not common it is out of curiosity that you want to know more!
The breed of dog used was chosen to do the specific job, as Sid said. They make excellent pets and I also have to ask, is it not a known fact that mongrels live longer than pedigree dogs?

Back to the hunting ban, they may have stopped us coursing Hare, but did it really stop those that bate badgers and dig vixens out of their den when they have babies down there? I think not. A bit like the ban on smacking your own child, unfortunately it hasn't stopped people abusing children.

There is also a kind of stigma attached to lurchers as they used to be (and still are)owned by travellers/romanies and 'Lur' is the romany word for thief so lurchers are sometimes viewed as sly thiefing dogs (certainly true in our household ) that were only fit for certain types of people.

I have had lurchers for most of my adult life and thankfully have never come across a bad or nasty one yet. All of mine were from a rescue situation with the last one, William, being rescued by myself from a gang of travellers who were kicking him repeatedly for not being a 'good rabbiter'.

I have found them to be the most forgiving and biddable dogs who enjoy nothing more than a good run, good food and sleep. I do worry about crossing them with the bull breeds though but that it just my humble opinion. Thank God for the likes of Pip Singleton from EGLR and Kay from Lurcherlink or these dogs would no doubt meet a terrible end.

Cassandra, I totally agree with your comments about breed crossing dogs to get Labradoodles, cockerpoos ect. Who knows what heridatary genetic problems will be thrown up in the future? But while there is demand for these designer dogs this practice will just carry on as it is a huge money maker for the people that are breeding them

I'm just back from a lure coursing meeting at Sue Rose's this afternoon - the star of the day was Clare (Elise's mum) Cartmel's little Birkie, a Bedlington/Whippet cross lurcher. She ran as a Deerhound to make up a sixteen dog stakes and won the first round losers. She was wonderful.

Pleased Birkie did well today. She's an amazing lurcher. She came into Mum's rescue (St Hubert's Hound Sanctuary) from a working home in the north of Scotland. Obviously like a few others, including the ones Rob and I have, she has actually stayed at my Mums. She was considered too 'fragile' for working due predominantly to a lack of coat. She was picking up quite a few injuries like tears etc on her skin. She's actually not got too bad a coat now and runs incredibly fast. She swims as fast too. She's also got a good temperament. Basically a typical Lurcher. Finished the hard sell on lurchers now you'll all be pleased to hear!

Here's a picture of Birkie being chased out of the sea my our other Lurcher at the time Tousie.

And another one of Birkie relaxing at Mum's.

I think Birkie was the star today she is a wonderful dog
Just wondering why no one has mentioned the Long Dogs?

I tend to think that Lurchers have lost the stigma they once had even if travelers have them. You've just to look in "Earth Dog--Running Dog. A friend of mine from Yorkshire, who's here in the states now, bred, coursed, and showed Lurchers and he's perfectly respectable. He also wrote extensively on them and was published widely. Here in the States Lurchers are widely used for coursing to the eradication of stock predators like Coyotes. They are sometimes called Staghounds, or Longdogs. Mine, Aeriss, is from Oklahoma and not only has fantastic prey drive, but is beautiful and a good pet too. She is mostly Greyhound, then Deerhound and a wee bit o' Saluki. Her coat/jacket is a bit longer and coarser than a Greyhound's and is weather proof to a large degree.

Her lure coursing.

I appreciate the information you have provided...I guess it concerns me..where is the sense of responsibility and ethics in this 'breeding'. Here we would probably consider that 'backyard' breeding and it would be frowned upon. I have spent years in 'education' with the kennel club here. Providing educational speakers for the club and the public. The CBC aired several programs regarding 'puppy' mills in both Canada and the US. It sent both shivers up my spine and tears down my face. I fear that hounds my face a similiar fate if that sort of attitude prevailed. Are my concerns unfounded? I am and always will be willing to take back any animal I brought into this world..that is my responsibility. I have signed a "Code of Ethics' with both the CKC and several breed specific clubs. To me, anyway..ethically breeding means being accountable for your actions...just like anything else in life. Do they not deserve this...absolutely.
As for mongrels living longer than pedigree dogs...the only fact absent is that unfortunately many many of these dogs have health issues, many go untreated as many pet homes do not feel these 'pets' require regular health care..or feel the cost is too high..besides...he is fine..doesn't really bother him...he can see fine in one eye..or I've heard "the seizures only started 2 years ago...he seems fine once they have passed." In '95 I started a Pet page in a local woman's magazine -hopefully to provide information and education. It was met my the editor with some doubt at first -til the first issue came out. It got more mail than any other part of his magazine. It was not breed specific, not animal speciific, although my area is canine and equine..so...(the only negative exp. in all - was my son and I were asked to leave a pet store when I counselled a woman against purchasing a dog from behind a tiny glass cage and suggested she check with the local kennel clubs prior to making such an important purchase. She asked if I knew anything about the breed -a Chow Chow (in fact I owned one yrs ago) why yes...to my delight...someone to help - opps...the store did not provide a health guarantee..and the living conditions were appalling. So...I stand by my decision and being escorted out of the mall was worth it.

Cassandra I understand how you feel but every country seems to have their own "lurcher" dog. America has Staghounds, Australia has Roo dogs and of course the English Lurcher. In Australia it is generally a Greyhound/Deerhound mix. Greyhound for speed and Deerhound/Wolfhound for strength. There is also the Pigdog which can be a sighthound x mastiff or bully type dog for hunting wild boar. At a country show we were at a local approached my husband and wanted to know how much we wanted for Lockie as he thought he was a prize to be put over his greyhound for hunting. Lurchers have been around for centuries and are not a dog that I classify as DD like a Pugalier or Spoodle or whatever other awful concoction people dream up.