Hello folks,

I'm a dry stane dyker from the Scottish Borders and I'm looking for a dog to share my sometimes lonely life with out on the majestic hills of the Lowlands of the Southern Uplands building and repairing dykes. I have been around dogs since birth (a springer spaniel called Tom guarded my pram from all except my mother!) and my last dog, Wilbur, a german wired haired pointer was my faithfull, if sometimes wilful companion for many years (may he rest in peace) and I'm looking to brighten up my occasionally overcast days with a companion of the canine variety. I recently met a pair of absolutely lovely Scottish Deerhounds from Stobo near Peebleshire whom I fell in love with but before aquiring one for myself I have a few questions for all you owners out there:

They are of course a breed renound for chasing; will they chase sheep/lambs/coos even if not well trained?

How do they fare in really poor weather conditions i.e. snow, hail, blizzards, tidal waves etc.?! ( I will have a cosy 4x4 we can both shelter in when it gets a bit too mental!!)

Are bitches more biddable than dogs? building/repairing dykes is a slow process; I need a dog who can stay by my side without a constant eye kept on him/her.

Who are the best breeders in Scotland? Any partictular lines to look out for?

and anything else you think might be helpful...



cheers and good night...

Hi and welcome to the site. We live on a farm and we have seven Deerhounds. We don't have a problem with the hounds chasing stock and we have both sheep and cattle. They have been brought up with Livestock so have never really shown much of an interest.

A couple of minutes in a pen with a tup would solve any problems with chasing sheep.
On saying that, they will give instant chase to anything else that gets up and that includes rabbits, hares and the neighbours cat if it is stupid enough to come anywhere the hounds patch. Really anything that runs is fair game.

We don't find dogs any more biddable than bitches or visa versa. Both sexes can turn a deaf ear when it suits them. They will always do what you ask of them BUT in their own time.

Like most running dogs, they are reluctant to leave their nice comfy sofa by the aga if it is pouring with rain but once they are out they are quite happy to race about and their type of coat enables them to cope with all weathers.

Regarding Breeders in Scotland, there are several but I can highly recommend Nell MacBean (Killoeter Deerhounds). Nell is on the directory of breeders on this site.
Our second Deerhound was a bitch from Nell. Nell is very helpful and very knowledgable, she has been in Deerhounds a long, long time.

With regards lines, Deerhounds have quite a small gene pool so you don't have to go back too far to find common ancestors in them all. Ardkinglas is probably the most well known line. Nells hounds all go back to Ardkinglas as do ours (Claonaiglen).

Should you still be interested after all that, Nell has a litter due on Friday(12th) but I am not sure wether they are all booked or not. You would need to give her a call.

I hope I have helped a bit and good luck. Sally

Hi Sally,

Thank you very much for your reply. Excatly what I needed to know and I'm now sure that this is the breed for me.

The litter due next Friday would be a wee bit too soon for me even if any of the puppies weren't booked yet but I will definately be in contact with Killoeter about litters due in the next few months.

Thanks once again and all the best.

Welcome to the forum.

Thought i would add my thoughts regarding your questions.

It is possible to train a Deerhound not to chase completely. As Sally says , it's not too difficult to stop them chasing large animals, not so easy for small furry ones. I've never stopped my Dog from chasing rabbits, but with enough training you can stop them if you wish.

In terms of the weather, in my experience, they can withstand the harshest of weather as long as they are on the move. Standing/lying round in cold,wet,windy conditions for any length of time is not good for anyone. I'm sure the cozy landrover will be a favoured spot while watching you out in allweathers !

There's no difference in dogs/bitches training wise. Again in my experience, because of their tendancy to want to do their own thing, they will wander if not monitored, but rarely wander far and will come back when whistled/called. Training can overcome this, but if you are going to spend all day every day with your dog, the bond will be very strong and probably wont' want to leave your side.

Another breeder in Scotland (Argyll) is www.breesfaltdeerhounds.co.uk/.
I believe Lesley is planning another litter early next year.

As Sally says, they can be trained, but you have to remember they are sighthounds and chasing is in their blood! If you had a friendly farmer who would let you take a pup to his sheep would be a good idea.
They are loyal loving bot sometimes aloof and they love their sleep. They don't eat as much as you would think, despite their size.
As for recall, well, I'm not sure Deerhounds are known to be best at that! They like to clock a deaf ear when suits!!
They are also a Scottish dog and their coats should be able to stand harsh conditions (see breed standard of www.deerhound.co.uk)
Also most breeders would wait until the pup was 12 weeks old before t went off to it's new home.

Good luck with your future pup and come back and post some pictures f you do get a hound!

Helen

Hi, glad to be of some help. Just to let you know, we are planning on mating our bitch, Ch. Claonaiglen Orrin sometime around December, if she comes into season when expected. Which will mean puppies about early March (assuming all goes to plan). You can have a look at Orrin on our website, we are in the breeders directory on this site. We maybe further away than you want to travel but it is just a thought.

Changing the subject, Alan wants to know if the arrow flight in your wall is your trademark?

By and large, I've found the males to be more biddable than the girls. I once dropped my first Deerhound in hot pursuit of a roe deer (you should have seen the look of absolute disgust he gave me, but he did lie down.) However, none of the subsequent dogs has been as obedient as Thane was. We live on an arable farm, so my current lot haven't had the chance to be stock-proofed the way they were when there were cattle on the place, and I certainly wouldn't trust them as far as I can spit among sheep, although they might think twice before taking on a cow. I'd echo previous posters who emphasise the importance of stock-proofing when your hound is still young and impressionable.

Owning a Deerhound is a responsibility - you need to get into the habit of spotting potential prey well before your dog does. There's a definite cut-off point in a chase where you can still stop the dog. After that, forget it; it will deaf you out, be off like the wind and won't come back until it's unsighted. If it doesn't return in a few minutes, it's caught something and you will have to go and deal with it.

It's important to teach a reliable recall and (counsel of perfection) drop at a distance. The other point that should be stressed is that two or more dogs equals a pack - if you're going to be out and about on the hill, settle for one dog, but beware - Deerhounds are habit-forming.

I agree with Sid (Hi Sid and welcome) about single dogs. When we had Dana as a single dog, she was the most responsive and loyal dog. Never wondered and always stayed close. Now with this three, I would never let them off lead outside our property.
I think a comfy mattress in the 4x4 would suit one very nicely as a haven against the weather.

I'd like to know how to teach a Deerhound a reliable recall! Also Sid you mention a point where you can stop your dog before hot pursuit takes place! I would like to know how you do it?
I walk my hound on a golf course, timing is everything as I know which way to walk round and at what time, trying to avoid golfers, even though most of them know him by now as he has introduced himself numerous times! Not everyone is pleased with a 100lb dog hurtling towards them to say hello!
I pick a spot on the course where i have good views all around before I let him off for a run, unfortunately I don't have land of my own.
He has chased rabbits and squirrels etc, I let him as they give him a good run and 9/10 dart in the bushes or up tree's, but once he saw a muntjac before I did and was off, he did come back, about 10 minutes later, badly damaged in the throat, thank God for pet insurance as it was over £400 in vets bills.
I have never ever managed to stop him once he's off after something.

Also does everyone else have the same problem as me with other dogs.

He can go to a show where there are 100's of other dogs and doesn't bother with any of them, he usually curls up with dogs when benched at shows and still doesn't even bother with them, but if he spots one when we are out, he is off over there like a rocket, he isn't aggressive at all though he can be dominant towards younger dogs, but he makes a real nuisance of himself, other dogs don't like it and usually have a go at him. I used to have Lurchers, off the lead, in the local park and never once did they ever approach another dog, they stayed by my side!

Hi Dyker and welcome to the site. I would broadly agree with everything that has so far been said. I have just 1 hound and he does stick quite close to me most of the time. I am very tempted to get another but have so far refrained. I feel quite guilty not getting him another Deerhound for company but he does see a lot of my friend's Terrier. I think a dog may tend to spend time by your side when younger but when he reaches approx 4 years will like to snooze on a matress in your 4x4 much more.

Helen in response to your post, I have sympathy with you as I have exactly the same problem with Ben and other dogs. He would aways run up and make a nuisance of himself and get very rough (not aggressive). Over the years he has been attacked by other dogs, mainly collies and labradors, for some unknown reason. He has been badly bitten and required surgery once and lesser treatment on many occasions. He still runs up to other dogs and tries to play but when he reached approx the age of 3, if attacked or feels he is about to be attacked, will repond by jumping on them to disable them from attacking him. Unfortunately as he is such a large dog he will always get the blame although he doesn't start things.

Luckily I have moved to a house with 2 acres of land so he gets to run, with a Terrier there and is kept on a lead when out unless I know there are no other dogs in the vicinity. He does seem quite happy with this arrangement and will not even pull much on the lead even if he sees a rabbit. I often get the impression that he is quite pleased to be stopped from getting into trouble.

I must add that I have never know such a nosy dog as Ben, he alway has to put his nose into anything and everything. If he sees somebody/something he will stand and stare for ages at whatever.

Robb, so glad I'm not alone, Murphy too has been attacked, mainly his own fault for charging in, Staffies have gone for him a few times, I think because they feel threatened by such a big dog and because they also like to be top dog. There is a lady who walks her Alsation bitch on the golf course, but as Alsation tend to bark furiously, he never gets too close, he knows he will get bit. Alot of dogs don't handle Deerhounds too well. I also have a terrier, and they are best of friends, though Murphy can get a bit boisterous in play so I have to watch he doesn't squash him!
It must be a Deerhound thing, though it can be a pain when you are out with them!

Deerhounds are such a friendly lot. Over friendly sometimes.

Training the dog to stop/not run off can be quite difficult for an adult dog when they are already in the habbit. But it can be done, with training the one thing you must not do is fall in to the trap of concentrating just on the one thing. Often behavioural problems (running off!) can be resolved by addressing the more general area of respect. If you get your dog to respect you then they will do what you ask (most of the time! )

I have noticed that as a breed Deerhound Owners tend to be lax in terms of letting them get away with stuff, ie sleeping on the furniture, taking affection when they want it rather than getting it when it's given and generally fooling around.

There are things we can do as owners which enable you to put you back in charge, but unfortunately , not a lot of owners want to do them, cos they like the cuddles so much and they think it's unkind to ignore the dog for a few days or keep them off the bed.

I don't want to go through a long list of things as each situation is different and it can take different things to work with different dogs and their owners, but once you have the dogs respect, they WILL be more eager to listen to you and you can then move onto lessons to teach the dog to stop.

Hi Dyker, and welcome. Definitely a good decision to get a deerhound, but then you may be getting a slightly biased view

I went to a dog training conference last year, that said i'm not a trainer and have all the same problems as you Lurch, but they gave some good tips about training recall.
1. Don't ever give a command you don't follow through with (sounds simple but how often do we say "close enough" and let it go) all this teaches the dog is that the command means I can do it if i feel like it. With recall, the best way to do this is to have the dog on a long lead (30m ish like a horse lunge lead) so you can reel them back in if they ignore you until they learn that come means come!
2. Don't give a command you know will be ignored. If the dog is in prey drive it's not going to come when called, and trying just reinforces again that the word means nothing.
3. Think about whats in it for the dog, Deerhounds don't have that "must please the owner" mentality of breeds like the border collie, so you have to make it worth their while. Food is always good, as is lots of praise or a quick game. Running in the opposite direction can work too.

I like point 2. I had better stop talking to the dogs

Harking back to teaching recall, I completely agree with previous posters advice never to give a command unless you can enforce it; otherwise it becomes a request which your dog can ignore if it feels like it. When I had Thane, I used a long line for training, and as a result he was always mentally on a lead, even when running free. If you can impress that on your puppy, you're half way there. Having said that, I took Thane coursing as soon as I could and ran him for seven years. It took several meetings to convince him that running out of slips and straight back to me wasn't what was required, but I remember the day the penny dropped to this day (and thank you again, Sorisdale Cariad for showing my boy the ropes - it was like watching a light coming on).
I always say that Deerhounds are Liberal Democrat dogs - you ask them to do something and they send the idea out to consultation, get the results back in after a reasonable time, collate and consider them before producing a report and then do whatever they wanted to do in the first place; but amiably and without causing offence to anyone. If you're looking for snap-to-it instant obedience, don't get a Deerhound. Most of us settle for close enough, even though we probably shouldn't. And no, my dogs aren't allowed on furniture or humans' beds. That's reserved for cats.

Hi folks!

I am completely bowled over by all your responses! Thank you all for you insights into the Deerhound psyche and if this is a measure of the level of support for the deerhound community it would be an honour to become a part of it!

CiCoch and Sally, early next year I think would be about the time I'll be ready for a pup. I want to be totally prepared to give him/her the absolute best start. Can you recommend any books on training/ owning deerhounds I could read beforehand.

I was also wondering if there were any events/shows I could maybe come along to to chat a bit more and meet some hounds in person?

The chevron in the dyke was a wee trick I picked up over in Galway doing a bit of dyking with a 76 year master of stone called Paddy and is rapidly becoming something i try and get into a dyke whenever I can (depends on the stone though!!)

Nice day to you all

All the best

DD

Drystane Dyker wrote:


I bought this one, when I 1st got my Deerhound.

www.amazon.co.uk/Deerhoun...4G8V2EYPXPT2045

It's OK as a general introduction, but I think there's far more knowledge and and insight available from our members here. I can only guess at the cumulative years of experience of the members here , but it must be in the hundreds ! I've only had a Deerhound for 2.5 years, but have had dogs all my life.

As far as training goes , I can't recommend any books, but I am a strong believer in the Wolfpack paradigm. I know there is a lot of people who disagree with it these days and I am strong believer in reading and making up my own mind, so thats what I would suggest to anyone. Read up on both side of the argument and judge for yourself. One thing I will say is that I have seen techniques that support the pack theory work so well, it completely makes sense to me.

These are in no way recommendations , as I have not read them, but they are examples of opposing books.

www.amazon.co.uk/Culture-...n/dp/1888047054
www.amazon.com/exec/obido...55932460/sr=1-1

Enjoy

I was recommended "Living with Deerhounds" by Kay Barret and found it a very useful book. I purchased it direct from the Author, her details are:

Ms K Barret
Greystones, Hebden Bridge, West Yorks HX7 8RG.
Phone 01422 844567

The ISBN is 0 9533923 0 9 in case you can get it elsewhere

Kay's book is excellent - I always recommend to new puppy people that they read it BEFORE they buy a Deerhound and then decide if they still want one. She tells it like it is, warts and all.
Further to the stop-them-in-their-tracks thread this morning, I've just done it! Tavish was very keen to go for a walk when I got home this afternoon and was about to take matters into his own paws. You know that '**** you' look they get when they're about to misbehave? He did that when I called him in to the house and prepared to zoom off. He'd just about got into third gear when I yelled 'Lie down' in my fiercest dealing-with-politicians voice and he stopped dead, turned around and crept back to my side, then lay down and apologised for his mere existence (laying it on a bit thick,I felt, but what the hell). I've found this with previous dogs - they interpret 'Lie down' in THAT tone of voice as meaning come here and then lie down. Very useful.
Dyker, if you're free on Friday, what about dropping by Darlington dog show? It's at Newby Hall, near Ripon and just off the A1 - there are 73 Deerhounds entered and judging starts at 9:30 am. It'll probably be over by lunchtime. Failing that, make a point of coming up to Sue Rose's on Sunday 21st and join in the lure coursing fun - see notice on the front page here.

I agree with Sid and Robb, Kay Barratts book Living with Deerhounds is definately the best and most informative book about the breed. I found Juliette Cunliffes book quite basic and if you look at her other breed specific books a lot of what is in the Deerhound book is also in the other breed books.