Hi ,i'm the brother of Annette, who has written about Lana in a resent thread and also about the killing of Ghillie (Burtonbank Troika). Having read your replies and kind words, i thought i would give a little more info into the happenings and also the farcical 'efforts' by the police and the law as it stands.

20/12/06. While i was working on private land, leased to the forestey commission, i heardv a shot and a yelp - only one answer - i ran through the trees to find a 74 year old man with a .243 high powered rifle (not a shotgun, a bullet gun - accurate to 800yds and kill you at 1 mile. The man raised the gun to his shoulder, told me to move so he could shoot Lana, i was about 20yds from him, moved forward to get to Ghillie and he told me if i moved he would shoot me.....When the police finally got there (45mins later - unarmed even though they knew of the threat)I was told they were happy with happenings and left. If a friend had not turned up to help it would have been kind of hard to pick a 6.5 stone dead dog up, but what did they care.....I went to the station where a Sgt. told me all ok as it was on private land...I made my own enquries and got some great help from: - an animal welfare officer, local MP, and police firearms officer from another force as well as various others. I gave my statement a couple of days later in the company of the animal welfare officer (RSPCA were good but no help as the Ghillie died instantly, i also took info from the British deer Soc. etc), was again told he was within his rights and there was no case law - the animal welfer off. put them right on that - 1911 - gathered all the info from the British Library and sent it off to the police....Eventually got to speak with Ch. Insp. well i say speak he told me lies, put the phine down on me twice when i informed him of this, refused to discuss it on the phone but also refused to meet with me. He told me the CPS had declined the case, i called the CPS direct who informed me they knew nothing of the case. How much must they have hated me by now. He also lied to the MP, who threatened to take it to the home Secetary

Eventually the case was given to an 'inpsection dept' within the police. Where the 2 attending officers and the Ch. Insp. were found to be in neglect of duty. Result, and it should have been armed response, guns taken off him and arrested until facts were established, none of this happened.

I won n out of court settlement for damages in full, in the civil court after i put his soliciter straight on a few points in law and had her where she didn't know what day of the week it was.

Now the law as it stands.

Ghillie was standing still when he was killed. evident by the hole and the fact it's 'dangerous' to shoot a moving target with such a gun.

To worry domestic livestock (cows, sheep, deer (not wild, but bred and reared) etc) a dog must phisically have the animal in its mouth, to chase is not an offence. Domestic livestock Act1971

The bit about deer:- I proved that the deer in the wood were wild, in the words of the law, as there was no fence to keep them in, they were fallow and you cannot farm fallow deer etc. Because of this the unpaid part time gamekeeper had no right to protect thus making his action illigal.

Other laws also come into play but it stats to get very complex. There is also a great book that i used as a sorce of reference as do the police, if any one has any dog / countyside problems it is well worth getting your hand on a copy. I gave my copy to a gamekeeper friend before i move to Australia and can't remember the title but if anyone needs to know i will find out for you.

Ghillie was a great dog, he was my pal and work mate, he came to the woods every day with me from being 10 weeks old and was loved by everyone. It was the worst day of my life having to tell my wife and kids 5 days befors christmas that someone had killed their dog. Thanks to Annette and the rest of my Family for getting us through such a horrific time.

My parting shot befor i emmigrated was to go to the press, again sorted by a contact, they gave me three quaters of a page with 2 pictures, he got 3 lines in reply, and everyone knew what a 'lovely' man he was.

Last of all, Never give up, when you know you are right.

Cheers, Craig

Hi Craig. Thank you for sharing your story. It must be hard reliving those events. Good for you for perservering in what what would have been a frustrating and difficult case. I'm glad it was settled though it would not have eased the heart ache that you and your family suffered.

what a sad story, but glad that you had kept going with your case many including myself would have given up.Could you get the name of the book you used

I was trying to explain it all to my husband, thanks for joining the forum and clarifying a few things. There is one thing that springs to mind here, if a sighthound were to chase a hare, deer etc, catch it, kill it instantly, these animal rights do gooders would be baying for your blood, yet where were they when a silly old man, walking around woods with a loaded gun, kills an innocent dog, an innocent family dog?

A few years back a couple round the corner were hold up in their house whilst Animal Rights activists were outside causing all sorts of mayhem, thei crime? The husband just so happened to work for a labaortory where experiments were made on mice and other small animals, in the fight against cancer (God help these people if one of theirs gets it and they want a cure)

I couldn't understand why this man wasn't surround by armed Police, prosecuted, or at the very least had his licence revoked.

My son, who was 10 at the time, was playing in the local park with 2 other boys, running through the woods 'shooting' each other with their plast guns, armed Police turned up then, how comical.

I am so glad you highlighted your story in the press and persevered with your case, even though the Police do not always tell the truth and try to cover up their mistakes, it must have flt like banging your head against a brick wall at times.

Well done, and welcome to the forum.

Helen

Thanks for the kind words.

Unfortunatly i feel it was never finished, i never got this fella into criminal court through police incompetence, it took me 12 months to get to the point that i did.

I have emailed the friend that i gave the book to before i left and will let you know as soon as i get the info. As it is now out of print i had to get a second hand copy from amazon.

Although not that interested in the show ring, Ghillie did appear at Crufts, for which i am very proud, there is no better sight than 50 / 60 deerhounds chilling out together. We will get another dog, but will always feel robbed of what we missed, i should be sitting right now with a big hairy lump at my feet, thinking about a walk on the beach tomorrow, but it's not to be.

Craig

Hi Suerose, the book that i gathered alot of info from was 'Fair Game' by Charlie Parkes and John Thornley. As well as this i was also able to print off legislation from the net.

By the way, there is no offence in chasing wild deer, no matter what you are told. Although Scotland may be different.

Hope this helps

Craigy
My Deerhound chased a Muntjac off the golf course and through the woods (owned by the forestry commission), being a young boy at the time, he only chased it because he thought 'that is what I am supposed to do' though when he caught up with it, had no idea, no doubt wanted to play with it, the muntjac turned on him, causing terrible injuries to his throat. A local was out walking his dog at the time and stumbled upon the 'scene' and then me as I was looking for him everywhere. He had a right go at me, though I was more interested in getting my bleeding dog to the vets. He must have reported me to the forstry commission, as a few weeks later a notice appeared saying "It has been bought to our attention that a Deerhound was seen, without a lead on, HUNTING Muntjac and causing terrible injuries, this matter has been reported to the Police. Anyone found walking a Deerhound in these woods will be prosecuted"
A few of the Muntjac have been killed, not intentionally, but there are a few 'older' ladies who have rescued retired Greyhounds and their dogs have killed quite a few, though no doubt not intentionally, but more a case of them being unaware. How can anyone be prosecuted for walking a Deerhound off lead on a private golf course, because that is where the chase started?

Graig,
I was very upset reading your story about the shooting of Ghillie. It's a shame you couldn't see justice done against that **** but no amount of justice will ever get Ghillie back. I always worry terribly about my dog chasing prey onto private land and being attacked and this makes me very carefull where I let him off lead. I think society generally is not very dog friendly, when I was a kid dogs were everywhere, roaming and there never seemed to be a serious incident. We have killed off wild dogs, cats and bears in this country and they had as much right to be here as us, in fact they were here before us.

Helen, I think that the forestry commission has a duty to fence off the woods if they don't want a dog running onto them, perhaps you should raise the matter with them, anonymously if it would otherwise compromise you.

Helen,
The Deffra Website www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/...mestic/dogs.htm
states the following:

"In civil law a dog owner is liable if he or she deliberately sends a dog on to another person's land in pursuit of game. A civil offence is also committed if a dog owner allows a dog to roam at large in the knowledge that it is likely to kill game. No entry on the land by the owner of the dog is necessary in order for the proceedings to succeed."

As you did not deliberately send Murphy onto the land owned by the Forestry Commission I do not see that they would win a case against you.

I thought that, if they didn't want any animal running into their woods, or if the golf course didn't want people from the woods onto the golf course, but never mind, I just ripped the sign down and bought it home! I am pretty sure, if the Police had been informed, it wouldnt take a genius to work out whose Deerhound it was, he was the only one living in our village at the time!
When I was small there was always dogs walking about, it was the norm then. When I was about 7, I used to knock at an elderly coupes door and take their Alsation for a walk, kids did if they didn't have a dog of their own! We are a society of supposed animal lovers, yet a dog mauls a child and the headlines are "Devil dogs....." Alot of people own dogs and are not aware of their 'role' in life. Border Collies = herding dogs (We were herded by one the other day!!) Alot of people own bull breeds thinking a walk round the park and then back to their flats are sufficient. Is it no wonder that dogs often bite? These dogs are frustrated and the owners are at fault. A story in the press this year, a Staffordshire Bull Terrier bites a toddler in a Bournemouth pub??? What is that all about, was this the only excercise this dog got, a walk to the pub! I am wary about bull breeds and wouldn't let a toddler of mine go up to one.
If anyone watched Dog Borstal the other day, a woman in a flat, having never owned a dog before bought a Shar Pei, a Chinese fighting dog??? Then found it controlled her! Hence going to dog borstal, surely the breeders are at fault too, it is like selling a Deerhound to someone unsuitable who has never had a sighthound before.

I don't think you can blame the breeders - everyone has to start somewhere with sighthounds, otherwise we wouldn't have our Deerhounds any more. It's up to the owners to do their homework and educate their dogs. Even so, accidents do happen; it's the nature of the beast to run after Bambi. That's what they're for. Shar Pei, on the other hand, were general farm dogs first and foremost - the Chinese fighting dog tag was added on to make them sound more exotic when they came to Britain. They're mostly couch potatoes these days.

However, I completely agree that the country is much less dog-friendly than it was when I was young and used to borrow the neighbours' dogs for walks. Our local policeman had a Doberman bitch who'd been rejected for police work because she was too sharp. I stravaiged all over the local countryside with that bitch and we both had a great time. No one ever bothered us, but if they had, I'm sure Danka would have leapt into guard dog mode. Nowadays, that would have been enough to get her put down. O tempora, o mores, eh?

I agree that you can not always blame the breeders the person that owns the dog/s should be responsible for their dog/s behaviour.
Mine have to keep me under control all the time:laugh:
I think the biggest problem in todays society is humans have no patience compassion or common sense

I didn't mean Deerhound breeders Sid, the breeders that I know are always choosy and selective who they sell to, sighthound was used as an example of what a dog could do. You didn't see the Dog Borstal programme on tv the other day? For a woman who had never owned a dog to pick a Shar Pei, whilst living in a small flat was silly, even the dog trainer said, this dog was no couch potato, it had bags of energy that wasn't being channelled properly, she couldn't even hold the dog on a lead. I meant that breeders should be more careful who they sell puppies to, if somebody hadnever owned a Deerhound before, worked from 8-6 and lived in a tiny flat, I wouldn't sell them one.
Some people pick dogs purely because of fasion, 20 years ago people had Rottweillers, beautiful dogs in the right hands, breeders were selling to the wrong people, hence they got a bad name. The same is happening to Bull breeds. I think Dalmations became 'hot' after 101 Dalmations came out, people looking at the cute little spotted puppies, not realising they can be boisterous and destructive and hard to handle (in the wrong hands)
Yes perspective owners should do their homework, today somebody asked me about Labrador puppies and I sent them off in the WWW direction of the breed club, I don't have knowledge of gun dogs, but did tell her to do her homework first.

Lurch,

You need to check whether the FC land was their's or private land which is on a lease. Although i worked as a forestry contractor for 20 years, i do admit to not holding full knowledge about their 'workings'. But it is my understanding that if it is FC land then the public have the right to walk on it.

Also, although one law contradicts another, and Muntjac although a pest are still under the deer act 1991, chasing is not akin to worrying as there is no offence of worrying as it is not classed as domestic livestock.

Other acts do come into play, but i suspect the FC are trying to put the 'frighteners'in a hope that that would be an end to it. They need to provide you with written proof of which offence was commited.

The police said to me that 'i had to look at what the dog was bred for' (hunting obviously) to wich i replied that firstly the dog was never trained to hunt, secondly hunting with dogs was banned, and thirdly,that you cannot shot a dog because of its breed. They did admit that if it where a Jack Russell he would not have been shot, strange that. Seems Deerhounds are fair game in the eyes of the police. Or was it a case of poor policing and not really knowing the law by them?
Incidentlly, while all of this was going on with this. A farmer a knew 'went missing'on a private estate i worked on. This made big news on the TV, his gun was missing and the police had over 50 officers serching local woodland, the very same Ch. Insp. that i was dealing with, was interviewed, with divers in local lakes. (does a man take a gun and end up in a lake????) he was found in a disused hall a day or to later. I did think to my self, i bet he's in the hall'. Is this good policing, or not looking at the obvious? Sad all the same, but surely it doesn't take Mullder and Scully to work that one out...missing person, missing gun, he wouldn't be in a disused building, must have swam to the middlev of the lake, treaded water and shot himself. Time to get the divers out.

craigy wrote:


Sorry to those of you that have read this before but someone was asking about it and this was the easyist way to go about putting it out there again

Hi Craig,
I was upset reading this article then realised it was you and your lovely dog.
Please can you post or email any information about this keeper or where the land is so I can inform people about the risk !
I hope your still on the forum and all the best down under ....watch out for snapping branches on them tall Euci.s
All the best Bud,
John W.

Hi John don,t no if craig got back to you I am his sister and kept his Deerhound Lana when they went to Australia, he told me he had met you at Blaydon with the dogs one day, I don,t live too far away from there myself (Greenside). Lana is doing well she was 11 in mar
Best wishes Annette

Well, it would've been Ghillie's 9th birthday today. I was only able to get 6.5 years with him and i still miss him every single day. I hope the fella that shot him rots in hell, it's about all he deserves

Birthday wishes to you.It's so sad what happened to Ghillie,and something that will stay with you for the rest of your life.

I met Annette and Lana,she's looking fantastic for her age,and loving life,(Ooops,Lana,not Annette!) She'l be over the moon to see you in March.