Just wondering - we have had Deerhounds for over 25 years and in all that time never had or heard of this condition. Is there anyone out there who can enlighten us. We have had several deerhounds who have fitted (not very nice) which has not been a breed problem so justthought how careful we should be about this.xx

Hi Joy

Sorry to hear you have had Deerhounds that have fitted. I have never heard of it in our breed before.
We had a Belgian shepherd that fitted, it's very unpleasant.

If you have a look on the Deerhound Club website www.deerhound.co.uk under Whats New or Health matters there is a section on Factor V11 and also this link to ~Sue Finnet and Hector Heathcotes' paper on it is very informative.

www.deerhound.co.uk/Healt...b%20Article.pdf

Anybody in Deerhounds should read and absorb the information. It's easy for people to get a bit hysterical about medical things when they are not in possession of all the facts. Factor V11 is not a serious condition and if you look into Beagles which is the first breed to discover it, they have known about it for 40 years and it hasn't affected them. In fact if you ask somebody in Beagles what they think about Factor V11, most don't even know what you are talking about!!!
It is important that we understand it though.

Hope that helps.

It is a minor bleeding disorder, in my view there are many more serious hereditary problems in deerhounds such as Bone cancer, Hereditary Heart failure, liver shunt However I would suggest you researching it on google, and speaking to your vet who may have never heard of it.

Currently sadly an already small gene pool is becoming smaller due to insistence of Testing for Factor VII reducing the gene pool by a large amount which this breed cannot afford.

These actions are weighting the scales genetically towards more problems to do with heart, and , bone cancer in Deerhounds, a time bomb for the future , and having experienced both of these tragic conditions in hounds, I know what I regard as being more important.

I myself have my hounds heart tested by a cardiologist before considering having a litter, I am also so hoping that the screening test for bone cancer will be available in the next couple of years, I for one will be first in the queue when this is available and would never ever breed from a carrier of any heart, or cancer problems. Currently to my knowledge there is no official heart testing programme in the Deerhound as there is in the Irish wolfhound I so wish there was.

Yes we too have suffered from the dreaded bone cancer and lost a wonderful friend before he was 6. I agree there are many other conditions that seem to outshadow this factor VII and feel that we should be looking into that more. If i had have been more aware of the symptoms of pyo we may well have still had our still greatly missed beautiful little Lettice.

Lovely Lettice - love that hat

When we had Xena speyed, I mentioned it to the vet, more for the sake of vigilence than anything else so that if they are aware of a possible bleeding issue they may take more care with small bleeders than they would normally. All dogs can have a coag test done before surgery for a small cost. This is done routinely with some breeds (Rotti's and Dobes I think from memory)as they are more prone to bleeding issues.

I quite agree bone cancer and heart problems are more of a threat to the breed than Factor VII.

Pam

I would agree with every thing Ardneish has said and if the commercial Breeders Breed for quality and not use our special Scottish Deerhound as a commodity, perhaps we would have virtuly no heredity problems and only problems due to size and shape (I know life is never perfect)

I couldn't agree more, as usual commercialism is the root of the problem. I'm not sure how we can resolve the problem without a lot of pressure from the Deerhound club and they do seem rather quiet on this subject. Other than from Betina I've heard of nobody campaigning for changes in breeding behaviour by the commercial breeders.

I know a mortality study is underway and possibly it could trace back to find the lines that are most at risk of these problems, however I'm not sure whether it may be too late before enough data is gathered to make this possible.

I don't know if it would be possible to establish the risks by genetic screening of future parents, if so then somebody (Deerhound Club/Kennel Club) needs to exert pressure on breeders to screen before it's too late and the breed genepool becomes riddled with problems.

I agree with Betina, we should have something in place for our heart dogs, having lost two boys to it and at too young an age. Hopefully we can screen for bone cancer soon.

and I also agree with Betina and what every one else has said. I'm more worried about other nasties than Factor V11, besides as someone said earlier, informing the vet beforehand even if you had an affected dog would probably save its life anyhow.

If I were to ever breed (unlikely) I am not sure I would even want testing done for puppies for this and I know others feel the same.

I had a lengthy conversation with the Leading Oncologist at the Animal Health trust
And associate professors at the AHT Newmarket with regard to Factor 7 and bone cancer some six weeks ago.

I was told in their view the risk’s of narrowing the gene pool by only using a “non affected dog” etc, were far greater, and without doubt would weigh the scales genetically to higher incidence of Bone Cancer and Hereditary heart problems. Within the Deerhound breed so a ticking time bomb.

I do not test for Factor VI, I do however test for Liver shunt and more importantly if I had a stud dog, or if a bitch of mine gave birth to a PSS puppy I would declare this to any potential owner’s siblings, and anyone who declared an interest in using the said stud dog. They could then make there decision based on the information given to them by me.
My puppies last year whilst playing all developed a cut or a graze during the months they stayed with me, and healed instantly, no cause for concern to me.

I bought a Deerhound dog puppy in, I adored him completely he renewed my love of the breed and I was so excited to have him here living with me, to find that beautiful puppy dead At the age of 10 months, In my orchard having searched the whole night for him, screaming across fields, driving into gypsy camps as I thought he may have been stolen, and then to come home and find my precious beautiful puppy dead in the long grass, at daybreak having shown no symptoms of any illness, and to find after having a full post mortem carried out it was his heart, practically destroyed me. And to this day I still suffer with his loss.

Therefore I do visit a cardiologist, and whilst I recognize the test is just a snapshot of the heart at that time, I am lucky enough or unlucky enough to have been in this breed for now nearly 28 years so my brain is full of information of any early deaths I have heard of , any bone cancer I have heard of, are all stored there, needless to say I avoid these line, that’s my choice and my decision, it will not guarantee that I do not have to go through the horror, and it is horror of bone cancer or Hereditary heart, but it does go to someway of protecting myself and my precious Deerhounds. And anyone who buys a Deerhound from me. (I do not breed often so there are not too many of mine around).

Sadly there is no official Deerhound testing scheme as there is in the Irish Wolfhound I wish there was, and with regard to bone cancer I am informed by the AHT, that they are hoping for a screening test within the next couple of years, I pray they achieve this and I for one will be the first in the queue. However again once this test has been designed if members insisted on Bone cancer screening before allowing their stud dogs to be used as is the case currently with Factor 7, it will also load the scales towards say Hereditary heart conditions, but I for one would happily screen for bone cancer and would not breed from any carrier of that terrible disease and if need be I would apply to go out and introduce new blood via a cross into my strain.

Factor 7, in my view you have to weigh up, the pros and cons, look into the breed long-term, I personally am convinced if the gene pool is made smaller which it undoubtedly is, it will load the scales to other problems within the breed such as Bone Cancer , Heart.loss of type, So personal choices have to be made, and all should be respected. We all have the right to our individual views and I have expressed mine.

How sad, losing the puppy like that. Once again, agree with everything you say re Factor V11, it was hyped up I think (my views!!) and blown out of proprtion.

That said, I have a nearly 4 year old ever so ectremely randy dog (also a carrier !!) that jumped on my back yesterday, as I was bent down tickling the terrier, I think he needs a woman!!!

Lurch8252 wrote:


So Murphy's not gay then Helen. Ben hasn't jumped on any of us yet but he gets very hyped up when we're out and he picks up the scent of a female dog in season.

O Betina , what a sad story about your puppy boy - was he the one you just had brought home ( from the Netherlands ? ) or did this happen a long time ago ? Anyways , I am really sad , 10 mths is wayyyy to young - reminds me of the Wolfhounds , who seem to have much trouble growing up theses days , shouldn't happen to either breed of course.
I lost one of mine last year to " sudden onset of heartdisease " , she was only 8 and had been seemingly fit and happy , went rapidly then .
One thing that crosses my mind every so often are the very young ages females are bred /males are bred to - so many of the diseases tend to come up a bit later in life . I know of one breeder , who doesn't breed a female before 4 and not to a male under 6 (or even older ) , checking how they and all their siblings are doing at this age - might be an idea . She said , it is amazing how many big winners have more or less " disappeared " at this age , especially males ; she breeds more for performance and her input makes a lot of sense to me. Factor VII might very well be hyped up , but I am sure grateful it brought my attention to the possibility - I would screen for sure before surgery and also before I bred a female ( if I ever did so ...!?! ) , just to be on the safe side should she need a cesarian or even for the regular whelping process .
To shorten this whole email , it all depends so very much on the responsibility and honesty of the people involved - I think I have become as careful in choosing a breeder to buy a puppy from as breeders are when choosing a home for " their offspring " .

No my boy from the Netherlands is here playing in the Orchard, his breeder Caroline Van Zanten heartchecks all her Deerhounds its a requirement in Holland, I remember when first going to see him at the tender age of five weeks, flying back home with tears welling up in my eyes, thinking I was being disloyal to the lovely dog puppy, that I had lost , it was a terrible time for me. I would of rather had Factov VI. to deal with

I think the breeder you are speaking of is very wise indeed, I always check through the pedigree of any dog I may decide to use, and the first thing I write down is the age I remember them passing to the happy hunting grounds, health , temprement is paramount to me


I so hope you do have some little wee bairns from your girl, deerhounds need you,

The comments re the sexy dog did make me giggle

Well , I think I will first have to win a little money to be able to breed deerhounds the way had it in mind - I did have litters with small breeds many years ago and never stopped imagining whom to breed to whom and why . As my only nonspayed ( = breedable )female is only 10mths old now , there is plenty of time for me to get rich(er) , before it is her time . Good thing I do know her famly fairly well and have been folowing their lifes for many years now , tis sde would be covered. I am sure glad t hear that your dutch pup is dong so well - he looks lovely !

suerose wrote:


Can I ask what do you mean by Commercial breeder? I didn't think that there were any commercial deerhound breeders as everyone claims to breed for the love of the hounds.

Ardneish wrote:


I was worried for a while that it was Cscarf that you lost. I know that you must still be very sad but at least the loss is not too recent. I'd have hated it to have been Cscarf having met him.

houndy wrote:


I know a few Deerhound people who would put one breeder into that category but I'm not mentioning any names.