Hi
I wonder if anyone can help with this email query I received via the site..



Can anyone offer any advice?
Thanks

Rob

I Rob
I think that they will possibly both end up lighter grey. Bree was a dark pup with brindle and she has a mottled coat. Dark underneath with a light grey on top. She can almost look silver. And if the other pup is turning grey already I would think that pup will be light as well. Their best option is to have a look at the parents as they will probably be a good guide. Lockie didn't start turning grey till he was eight months.
I hope that helps

Hi Brollachan
Thanks for that I'll pass the information on.
Cheers
Rob

Hi, I always worked on the premis that quality came with the darker pups..Ive had them like black labradors, but they always lighten up..not too light mind you:laugh:

I tend to disagree. I thought that fashion was what dictated that darker dogs were better. I have one very dark bitch and I wouldn't want to breed from her as I don't think she makes the grade as far as conformation goes.
I think it is such a shame that we have lost the red deerhound purely due to some ones preference for dark dogs. How I would love to have a red dog with black points. How spectacular that would be.

I wish I had a groat for every disagreement in dogs.. and to tell you the truth, I could care a damm if you disagree or not, and a pound for every UK show breeder thats bred from a deerhound with poor confirmation..I have never been a follower of fashions or fads, especially in the deerhound world, big UK show kennels dictate what is deemed good and bad points, usually ignoring the breed standard, or minipulating it to suit what they have got. My premis is born through my own breeding experiences with my particular strain, and observing other knowlegable dog people, and the dark colouration I speak of is restricted to young puppies, not fully set stock, as I have never owned such an individual, so cannot comment. Every dark puppy I have bred has eventually turned out grey.

Our dog, Isla, was nearly black, with brindle, as a small pup. I would now describe her as in the middle of the range of greys and the browns have all but disappeared.

I agree 100% with Doxhope. also our boy was very dark black as a pup with tinges of red here and there, like golen highlights, he went very light grey. I was advised to strip him out as it was 'undesirable' to have a fuzzy coat, and he has grown back black, with white roots??? He looks a skunk most days, but looks amazing when brushed, people ofte comment on his coat colour, as most hounds are either dark or light grey.
He will turn out grey whatever, there is no escaping that!

Doxhope wrote:


Words of wisdom!!

If they are concerned about the colour of the hounds coat , then I suggest they go and buy a poodle Where colour is a very important breed trait.

Type, construction, movement is what is wanted from a galloping hound along with some lights on between the ears.

It states in the breed standard that dark grey is preffered, but if colour is of huge importance then this amazing breed is on a slippery slope to being totally destroyed and will not resemble a true Scottish Deerhound

Well written Ardneish, why is colour so important? But, just found out what is missing with mine, 'some lights on between the ears'!!! I would love him if he were pink with yellow spots!

Ben was a light grey and silver when he was a pup. Now he's quite dark in the winter and a light grey and silver in the summer. Also in the summer he has a bit of red fur on his back above his tail which must be a throw back to the days when they had a lot more red fur than today.

He's not a show dog as he's got a bit of a stop hovever he's a prime specimen other than that and very powerful. He's just the sort of dog you'd want to hunt deer with I was told by an championship judge once.

I'd have to agree with Ardneish re what is going to become of the breed if all that people are interested in is the 'correct colour as per KC'.I think that it is worthwhile remembering that initially the Scottish Deerhound was found in a larger variety of colours such as pale yellow, red,brown sandy etc.
However I am wondering if it is possible that the Victorian's decided that grey was a more fashionable colour as afterall it was them who dictated that Highland cattle should be the russett colour when they were actually originally black (so I have been told!)?

Robb wrote:


Robb

I have been meaning to say this, If thats the only thing someone can try and fault with Ben, its a poor do!,
There is no such thing as a perfect deerhound, that even includes the magnificent Ch Rosslyn Carric who is the breed record holder.
Highlander also had a "stop", he also had SUPERB rear end, great substance, strong neck, good jaw and lovely shoulder, There are always more positives with regard to any deerhound than there are negatives, and it makes me wild when some silly self motivated people pick on one fault without looking at the whole picture often to try and make new members lack confidence.

I think Ben should get out to a couple of shows under some decent judges and lets see how he does.

Again well said Ardneish. Every dog has at least one fault but it is the whole dog that has to be taken in. Bree has done so well in the ring winning many Group 1's and In show classes but her coat is a tad softer than preferred and she can lack expression (due to lack of interest LOL) but her conformation and movement is to die for. As said there is no perfect dog.

Thanks for your advise Betina. The only show that he's been entered into so far was the 2006 Breed show and perhaps that was not the best show for a first time showing. I'll look for some shows in this part of the country to maybe try again. It would be good if he could do well at a few as I'd like for him to spread his genes and I suspect that if he could do well that would make him a more desirable stud.

This year for some reason he seems to be getting very interested in females and drags me for miles down the country lanes if he can smell a female on heat anywhere in the vicinity.

Our Kiloeter Girzie (Cara) was very black with gold stripes when she was a puppy. She still went grey though, albeit a very dark grey. Cara's son, Claonaiglen Orchy had a lot of red in his coat and it wasn't dead hair! I believe Ardkinglas Sam was quite a red dog and our lines go back to him so maybe that is where Orchy got his colouring from.

Yes Rob,do get him out, its always worthwhile being picky with the judges, I would not bother with the majority of the all rounders who just follow the flow, and do not have the courage or more importantly the knowledge.

I love the photo of the head in your avator , and really would just get that stop issue out of your mind

Ardkinglas Sam was heavily used, on one of my visits to Ardkinglas I stopped for around four days that time if memory serves me, and Miss Noble was then refusing studs for Sam as she said he had been too heavily used and she was concerned for the gene pool.

I did eventually get my mating with Agag but sadly too late so no puppies , but as usual I had am amazing time listening to Miss Anastasia in front of the fire, I would not swop the time I spent with her for the winning lottery ticket.

Sam was a very dark dog, Agag not so much so, often coats turn red due to sun exposure, and other weather conditions, also a deerhounds coat texture is much like some breeds of terrier and it blows a couple of times a year meaning its dead.

Miss Noble showed me a photograph of her Aunt Lillias taken in the late 1880,s with a RED, deerhound and I mean red all the way through or wheaten if you prefer, but as most of you know the Wolfhound still has the wheaten gene and pure wheaten so if its every desired in the deerhound one would have to get permission from the KC, to do a breeding programme five generations crossing out to a wheaten wolfhound.

I however think the color of coat is not important , the texture needs to be weatherproof
more important I think to cross out to a coursing greyhound but thats another story and will probarly never happen in my lifetime,

Hi Betina
Am i correct in thinking that Miss Noble brought a black greyhound into her gene pool at Ardkinglas? I seem to remember reading it on the web somewhere? I assume black was used as a true colour that would not affect the deerhound colouration ? I assume also that the greyhound was brought in to either add to the speed and agility or just to purely increase the gene pool and prevent too much inbreeding?
Thanks
Vicky

Yes she did Vicky,

The colour black is a dominant gene, and blue is black diluted in the Gt Dane the grey colour is called blue ( forgive me as I know lots of people here have this knowledge)

So in deerhounds we call it grey, but grey ( blue) is diluted black so a good colour to choose, It was very difficult for Ardkinglas, Rotherwood , Ross etc to bring the hounds through the two wars, food was very hard to get hold of, luckily at Ardkinglas of course there was the annual cull etc so meat was available and Miss A, was known for going to collect road kills etc. The famous copper at Ardkinglas used to have some very strange objects tossed into it, one of the Ardkinglas hounds favourite supper was boiled sheeps head and our hounds today would love this, also. but of course now impossible to get hold of unless you have a friendly ababatoir, I remember myself having the task of collecting still warm fresh tripes , paunch, lights along with other things that the hounds loved. I remember Miss Noble telling me that her chickens ( she bred Rhode Island red and showed these also into the red cards), had a great time picking the maggots of the floor if the tripes had been hanging too long.

It was a way of ensuring the breed continued along with putting back some much needed fresh blood, sadly a lot of the other respected kennels of the time refused to use this particular line, I am glad to say it is still around Hillmorton has the line along with some others , but frankly its such a long way back now.

Interesting about the coat, even though Bree has a softer coat, her coat is the hardest to get wet. Xena and Lockie who have lovely coarse coats get wet much easier.