I was just wondering what other owners thoughts were on the optimum age for having a first litter from a Deerhound.
I feel that the bitch should be at least a minimum age of 2 years never under 2 years of age. The reason for the topic is that I am thinking of having a litter from one of my girls and she is just over 2 years of age now so I was just wondering what others think.

Hi i dont pretend to be an expert but all the information that i have been given over the years is never breed before the second season as the bitch needs that length of time to mature i.e. bigger breeds take longer to mature than smaller breeds some terriers will have there second season at 16 months or there about but large breeds may be as much as 30 months before the second season

Interesting question suerose. I wouldn't breed before two years. As farnorth said, the bigger breeds do need longer to mature. Can't have babies having babies.

May I also raise the other side of the coin and ask when is a bitch too old to breed? I have heard it said, by a prominent drhd breeder in the UK, that bitches bred for the first time after the age of 5 will often run into complications. Not to say they can't have litters, but now you have to be more vigilant. Does anyone have experience with this?

We would consider breeding from a bitch that is in her second season and not before she is two. From our experience, and it is not a good one, we would not breed from a maiden bitch that is four years old or over. But, that is our preference and other breeders have had successful whelpings from more mature maiden bitches. Our experience was not a pleasant one for us or the bitch and we would not want to repeat it.

I know very little about breeding but would not have thought under 2 years old as they are still babies in a lot of ways. I suppose you can equate it to humans. Too old and complications can set in and also, is it fair to breed from a bitch of say 6/7?

This is just my humble opinion from a commonsense point of view. I shall be interested to see what others with more knowledge say

I agree I would not breed with a dog under 2 years of age. To turn the subject around a bit how young would you use your dog for stud and what is the oldest you would continue to use him?Just to see what people think.

Well Wallace, there was the welsh toy boy who sired that great litter a couple years ago What was he - 8 months? But there was a case of passion overruling sober intentions

Try as I might...I can't stay clear of this one. First...was it your intention to breed her all along? Is she of the quality to be bred...passing along her genes to the future...??There are alot of other questions one needs to ask themselves...ego aside..perhaps a talk with her breeder??
Regards
Cassandra

On the subject of stud dogs, my lad helped himself to his sister when they were only ten months old and the bitch gave absolutely no indication that she was in season. It didn't do him any harm, but rearing resulting surprise litter of two perfectly healthy wee girls when she should have been growing up didn't really do their mother any favours, although she's caught up now. However, I would never choose to mate such a young bitch. Third season and/or not under two years seems about right.

Back to bitches, I have had a bitch who was difficult to get into whelp and had her first and only litter when she was five and a half. Well, I say litter, but Lyra was a singleton puppy and Ruin had to have veterinary assistance to produce her. She didn't come into milk, although she did look after the puppy most devotedly, so Lyra was a bottle-fed baby. It's tough enough with one pup, and I shudder to think what it must be like to have to hand rear a bigger litter.

For Cassandra: in Suerose's case, the bitch in question is a lovely girl and well worth reproducing.

If it was me - it would be over 2 years old,(idealy between 2-3) and only if i thought the
bitch was mature enough, too imature and you run the risk of the bitch
not wanting to look after the pups.

Raising puppies is one of the great joys of life...as well as a huge responsibility. I've always considered them my 'responsibilty for life' even though they go oto wonderful loving homes. I probably shed more tears than 'mommy'..she's happy to see one less babe. Thankfully over the years I've gotten lovely Christmas cards and one lady in Seattle sent me a Valentines card with a picture of her new 'son' with a red rose attached to his collar so it appeared in his mouth. It was a beautiful photo proff shot. So nice when they have great homes that stay in touch. Good luck !!
Cassandra & Zippo

Elsie Grey is having her 2nd season now at 23mths and she is still such a baby As much as I would love her to have pups, I will have to wait untill she is at least 3yrs old if not more, she is very immature, bless her.
Just hope after this season she does not think she has given birth to any more bouncy baby balls.......don't think I could go through all that again

I also think it very much depends on the mom to be - though per se I would not breed so early , most likley not before they are 3-4 years of age - the females that is ; males even older only - somehow I find , that not only seem deerhounds not very mature before they are about 4 at least , also , some of the bigger health issues pop up often later in life and I'd like to at least have been able to see how they - and their siblings ! - are doing with regards to that aspect . One can always have the sperm tested of a male - so , there is no reason to worry about him loosing is fertility ( and if so , would one breed to a dog who does looses it earlier in life ?) . Just a few thoughts only had litters with small dogs , still , continue to play with the idea and for sure have my opinions . As " until when " to breed a female , again , it totally depends on her , her fitness/condition ! Usually I would set the time for a first litter with 5 years of age for a deerhound - and this only for a well kept , fit hound . Males , I do not have a timelimit - AI might be advised for some oldies , still , as long as they are healthy and the sperm is , too , why put a limit to their age ?
This whole thread leads me to another question/questions , which I will post as a different thread.

For me, and I am no experienced breeder, but I would be waiting till near 3 rather than 2. I think the bitch needs to develop mentally as well as physically.It also gives a better idea of what the finished "product" will look like and any early onset health issues.
As for older bitches, I was willing to give Bree a final hoorah just before she was 6 but like before did not take. Provided the bitch is strong, fit and healthy...

I remember talk on the DH list about delaying breeding to filter out health issues but Deerhounds have a short window for breeding.

I think it's a good idea to breed a Dh bitch on her second season as they are at their most fertile and recptive at this age, and there is usually no problem with whelping.

The oldest bitch I've had litter from was seven and half when she whelped. This was not from chioce, she had been mated to a couple of other dogs and refused to concieve. I use the word refused deliberately, she had been prog tested the dogs were definately fertile there was a good mating and nothing happened. She got on really well with one particular dog so as a last fling I decided to mate them, she produced and raised 7 lovely pups. She went on to live to 12 and in fact the litter seemed to rejuvinate her, she just loved playing with the pups.

Pam

A friend of mine wo breeds deerhounds had her 1rst litter from a 5 year old deerhound
( also her first ) , who was in excellent shape (still is , at age 11.5 ! ) and she had 14 puppies ; the next litter from a 3.5 year old with 13 puppies and then , the best , an almost 4 year old who whelped and reared with ease and looking good , 15 happy and healthy pups . I think a lot depends on the health and fitness of a deerhound - and their happiness , too !!!
Attached 2 pics of the 11.5 year old beauty....

Ok , here the second photo - both taken when she won Best Veteran at the German deerhound specialty this year and then even Best Veteran In Show the same day

I am so glad that this topic has come up, if only from my own selfish reasons in that it has answered a qusetion that I was considering asking - do deerhounds come into season every 6 months or not? Clunie had her first season at about 14 months (start of January) and nothing more yet. However looking through the discussions I am no longer worried as she could be 2 before her next season?
Thanks

Not knowing anything about breeding I would have always thought that a bigger bitch should be over 2 if not 3 until she had her first litter as I remember being told (as a child when we had our first dog a doberman cross lab)that larger dogs didn't mature and settle down until they were at least 3 years old.

Not necessarily - some do come in heat evey 6 mths , some only every 10 mths , sometimes the time inbetween is even longer ....The mother of my youngest was almost 2 years when she had her first heat , then came every 10mths and after her ( huge ) litter ( at age 3.5ish ) she had a break of over 1 year . My first 4 cam into heat about every 10mths ( startng around 16mths of age ) , the youngest might come into heat more often....

Ok - I am going to ask a REALLY STUPID question - If you have a bitch come into season and have a neutered male will he go barmy and try to mate with her?