Hello everyone.
I was warned how adictive owning deerhounds would be.
I have been dreaming of building a kennel and would appreciate suggestions to make the perfect home from home for my dogs.
At the moment the dogs sleep in my garage but have part of the house when we are awake. I would like this situation to continue but with more purpose built accomodation. I have two girls as some of you may be aware. I am planning on getting a dog with the intention of breeding.
I would value all suggestions, plans and experience from members of this forum.

There's no one size/type fits all when it comes to kennels. A lot depends on the site and space you have to install them but as long as you provide for the dogs fundamental needs i.e. warm clean and dry with access to clean water, the rest is down to personal preference. On top of the fundamentals, there's the dogs mental health to consider, so the ability to socialise and exercise come next.

Our dogs are mostly in the house when we are at home, the rest of the time they are in a purpose built kennel block, which consists of a water proof/ insulated nest box which opens into an individual runs. The runs are all on concrete under one roof. We line the nest boxes with wood shaving for extra insulation and also helps dry them off when they are wet.


I'm sure every answer you get will be different depending on peoples opinions and circumstances.

Yes, I agree every kennel will be individual, depending on circumstances. My purpose is to plan as perfect a kennel as possible, so as to eliminate as many mistakes as possible.
It would be built onto the side of my garage which has electricity. I agree about the concrete runs with a slight slope for ease of cleaning. I have been researching the best method of draining away the waste water. Even though I pick up any mess, there is still much that has to be washed away.
What size of run? What kind of fencing?

Size of run: As big as you can afford/have space for.

Fencing: Metal is best (as they can't chew it) and should be at least 2m high.

If you want ideas, Have a look here : www.caninekennels.com/

If you are going for perfection ;

Room with Freezers for Food storage.
Lighting and central heating would be good for the winter.
Self feeding water bowls.
Water outlet for power washer.
Power points for TV and fridge.
Washing machine for dogs beds.
A/C Unit for the summer.
Beer for the fridge.


Can I come and live with your dogs please ....

Firstly I ask the question why do you want to breed??
Will you be showing your girls ? in order to educate yourself, and to contribute to the breed?

Are you aware that we have real health issues within the breed that tend to be swept under the carpet eg Bone Cancer, Heart problems , liver shunt, wooley coats etc etc

Do you have the experience and knowledge to choose a suitable combination for your bitches to avoid these problems?? are you going to heart test them beforehand??

Are you also aware that there are currently 4 litters of puppies that I know of that remain " unsold" at five months of age?

Its a sad day for this breed there are too many being bred by inexperienced people under the illusion they can make money , I have recently had a litter which has cost me in excess of 3400£ uk pounds!, but they are reared very well and I go to a suitable dog and pay a 750pd stud fee

I am sorry it these comments will upset you, but I need to point this out, I have been in this breed for nearly 30years now and I along with many other devotees are so concnerned with regard to the over breeding in this country right now which without doubt is going to lead to a huge rescue problem , already my local rescue has had 3 pure bred deerhounds in this year!

and are about to resuce a deerhound litter of five months as the owner cannot find homes for them

Deerhounds are a specialist breed, needing suitable homes with experienced owners ,
With regard to kennels why have them if you do not want them as part of your family.

I would like a kennel with a run, not for breeding purposes but as they are so chewy etc unless I keep them in their crates when I am out, the house would be chewed up. A kennel would allow them some freedom if we go out for a while. I would then let them back in the house when we are home. I wouldn't like them to sleep outside during the night in case something happened to them or they started barking at the foxes. We would not be popular with the neighbours.

Mack and Daisy are real barkers! I though deerhounds were quiet dogs!!

Very well stated Betina, I'm glad that someone who is respected in the Deerhound community, such as yourself has raised these concerns so clearly.

I have noticed that Deerhound breeders seem to be multiplying rapidly and have wondered if this is a good thing. I am concerned with the genetic problems that you mentioned, there has been a lot of publicity about badly bred dogs recently and I thought Deerhounds were one of the better breeds. I've not heard of these problems before with Deerhounds (Other than factor 7) so they have certainly been swept under the carpet. I also agree with you that Deerhounds (and any breed) should live in the house with the family and not be housed in a kennel or used as a money making enterprise.

I took my dog in as a rescue (albeit from a friend who's circumstances were not right to keep a Deerhound). I would love more but am aware of the constraints on me as I only work part-time and the resources required to home a Deerhound properly are certainly a lot higher than for most other pets. My dog is approx half way through his life and should I home another later then I will give priority to another rescue dog.

I would have loved to raise a litter but for the sort of reasons that you stated have been put off doing so. I think that this should be left to the established and reputable breeders. Deerhounds have received a lot of publicity recently on film and TV and this oftem attracts the wrong people to buy a dog for the wrong reasons.

MrsMc wrote:


My dog Ben barks more often than I thought Deerhounds did. He will always bark when out, if we meet another dog, to get it excited so he can play chase, I think. He also barks at out Terrier to wind it up to run. He also barks in the evening just before feeding time. That said though, over all he is a lot quieter than many other dogs that I know.

Mine also chewed the furniture, walls, shoes when he was younger. I purchased something from the pet shop that tastes nasty to a dog and sprayed it onto the things he chewed and that seemed to stop him.

Providing bones and pieces of wood for them to chew also seems to help, strangely mine seems to prefer a piece of wood to a bone.

I also agree with Betina, sorry! Deerhounds aren't like small terriers, and you may well end up keeping most of them, if you have the time and money and wouldnt mind that would be fine.
It would be a dream of mine to breed a litter of Deerhounds, bur sense pervails, there was an article regarding unsold litters. Deerhounds aren't everyone's cup of tea! So I will have a litter of Border Terriers next year instead!! Smaller litters and easier to find good homes for.
I do have mine indoors, though sometimes could do with a kennel. Yesterday I spent all day at the hospital with my young son and my poor dogs were left on their own for 5 hours, a kennel would have been great.
I disagree that hounds should live indoors. I have just come back from my inlaws in Ireland, where they have 18 Greyhounds in kennels that most folk would have liked to live in a few years back, though I do like mine in for their cuddle and human interaction. As long as they are excercised well, most Deerhounds do like to snooze alot. I don't agree with animals on couches or beds and don't have a house that is big enough to warrant their own furniture! Dogs should know their place, but each to their own and everyone has their opinion, if it suits you having them indoors, fine, but as someone said earlier, mental stimulation is of great importance.

An answer to the question of water/cleaning.
Our old kennels we had the sloping concrete and a gully at the edge, my husband put in a water mains supply and dug drainage with a big pipe into the drains. We had wooden kennels (5) and chain fencing all around. I think if I built now I would choose breeze block, also beds have to be raised from the floor, used to be 18 inches if I am right???

Lurch8252 wrote:



I am not anti kennels, its very handy to have some, I am lucky to have a large new stable here perfect for the times when I need to go out, or do jobs around the place .

I worked in Kennels for years, and my grandfather had a coursing greyhound kennel of around 20 , they were however walked twice a day, and had piped music, bit like my cousins cows!
they also have music.

I have recently bought four tuffie dog beds , its the only thing that stops my older two girls from pinching my sofa,

I just am anti these commercial kennels were the dogs, deerhounds etc etc are kept purely for breeding, money, and human beings egos.

I agree with you Betina, there are so many dogs in rescue centres looking for homes and the majority are sighthounds. I wish I had some stables too! I certainly needed them yesterday, when I am at a show I send my other dogs round to my Mums for the day. I do like having mine indoors, just sometimes with the hair and a destructive Border Terrier, kennels sound like heaven!

Murphy barks like mad as soon as the sun goes down (yes, sun, orange round ball we used to see in the sky!)
He parades up and down the fences, tail in the air, like he is on a military excercise, barking like mad, at nothing!!
Good squirt with the hosepipe works wonders, or the word BATH!! I couldn't kennel him now, it's too late, though he doesn't bark during the day. I never thought Deerhounds barked either!

I can understand people having kennels when they have a lot of dogs since it is not practical to have a lot of dogs living in the house and so long as there is a lot of interaction with them fine. I've always had Ben in the house and until we took in a lodger with a dog, he was the only dog, and I don't think its fair to put a dog in the kennels all on its own.

I have a large plot and if I need to do something or have the young grandchildren round the dogs go out in the garden, weather permitting. I thought the dogs would love a large plot of land but they just sit near the back door and rush back to the sofa when the door opens. They're happy to stay out if there's something to chase but the resident rabbits and squirrels seem to have got wise about the dogs and rarely show when the dogs are about.

Although Ben likes a spell on the sofa, he spends most of his time laying on the rug so we don't have many clashes about the sofa.

I also , though loving the breed enormously, having had a few litters with smaller breeds and having 4deerhounds of my own , do not want to breed - however tempting it is . But , there are enough breeders out there and , it is so much more work and a huge responsibility to raise a ( possibly very large ) litter of a very large breed - not even to speak of finding suitable homes for them ,which is for sure more difficult to do for a breed like a deerhound than for your " average labrador " . I understand that kennels are a good tool for a keeping larger number of hounds and also to keep the puppies contained from a certain age onwards - but I personally would never buy from a breeder who has her/his dogs in kennels/runs only . I also , most likely , wouldn't buy from someone who had so many hounds that they couldn't live in the house anymore. To me the well being and happiness of the parents of my puppy are very important and , the way the hounds are kept show a lot about the breeder , too. My girls have a dogdoor that leads into my yard and usually is open , so that they can choose where to be when ; I never had any bigger problems with destruction in/around my house and they do bark when playing - or wanting to play - and , when they treed a bear or when wildlife comes by here at night, too . Otherwise they are really quiet .
Here in Canada ( and the USA ) people seem to be quite aware and open about the
" biggies " in this breed , torsion/bloat , heartdisease and bonecancer - and , more recently the bloodclotting deficency and also cystinuria seems to have popped up and is spoken about ; unfortunately , speaking about things like this in general doesn't warrant that the breeders are honest about what goes on in their own lines .
I am sorry to hear , that there are so many more deerhounds in rescue situations in England these days - not that much here so far , but , as deerhounds here have quite a lot of BIS and group wins these days , who knows what will happen with that much more attention brought to them.
Oh my , so much " food for thought " ,

Verena

Wise words indeed from a true Deerhound lover, and one that without doubt contributes to the breed and should have a litter, I find it also sad that people who have been in the breed for over 20years and have produced some outstanding hounds are now too worried to have a litter and are allowing their lines to die out, lines of excellent type, function, personality etc etc.

Currently the gene pool here is getting smaller by the day, the same dogs and bloodlines being repeatedly used, this is going to have a dramatic effect on the breed in time, both in health and type.

Yes there are heart problems in the Uk, and to date there is no official heart testing scheme such as the Wolfhound Club organize, people seem to not want to talk about it, but keep batting on about factor 8 , which in my opinion is not a problem in the deerhound , my puppies have all has a little cut here and there from playing all have clotted, bone cancer is,! hearts are,! torsion, liver shunt and now I here in Europe they are finding some hounds with Auto immune, how I wish the people who keep shouting about factor 8 would also shout about the more important health issues, but it is also being used as a puppy selling tool frightening new buyers away from people who do not agree with the testing, and we all as human beings have the right to form our own intelligent opinions. Based upon the evidence.

Verena if you have the time could you tell us a little about cystinuria possibly under the health thread

Hello " Ardneish " ,

I personally only know one male dh who has cystinuria - which is basically bladderstones . The deerhound was diagnosed with this disease at about 6 years of age and needed an emergency surgery as his uretha ( SP?) was blocked ; he now has an artificial , larger exit for his pee ( sorry) , has fully recovered and is even in better shape than before , being 8 years old now. I read on a deerhound list - from the owner - of a top winning show dog - again a male dh - who needed emergency surgery for cystinuria a year ago , meanwhile his son is being shown , too , with great success- I do not think we know how cystinuria's inheritability is . I also heard from owners of other affected deerhounds - there are just not so many out here in BC where I live , but it is out there . There are 2 articles on the website of the American deerhound Club - here the link :
www.deerhound.org/health.shtml or google " Scottish deerhound Club of America " and follow the links there .

If I ever win the lottery and can train my own dog/puppysitters , have the ability to keep whatever puppy I can't place and also offer every puppy I ever bred to come home to me if it should become necessary , I might just reconsider ! Currently I am waiting for my new puppy to arrive , from Germany - she is one big mix of great European , American and Australian bloodlines and would make a wonderful foundation as there are so many options to whom to breed her , nothing would be too close and a little bit of connections to family-lines would be easily had....


Verena

Thankyou so much for that info I have bookmarked it

I am just home from Holland, I went again to see my Dog puppy I am importing from Caroline Van Zanten, I was so pleased he remembered me, I have managed to visit four times this year, so frustrating the Rabies laws here in the UK, but I think its good we have them but it means bringing a puppy in, is very expensive and I have to wait until they are ten months old.

How exciting you are having a puppy from Germany, they really do have some lovely deerhounds in Europe with different bloodlines to here in the UK, going back in the far past to the old established kennels that were in existance here pre and post war.

Do let us know when the baby arrives, I am lucky I have the space , and I save up for years before having a litter, my last litter was over four years ago, and my motivation was to keep my line going, so all the ones I have loved and lost carry on, but I do struggle to find good dog sitters.

Betina

Hello everyone,
I seem to have raised a few concerns and worries among some members of this forum.
Please allow me to try and allay these fears.
I am not planning on breeding my deerhounds in an attempt to make money. You all know the costs involved, (not only financial), keeping our loved ones healthy and happy.
Those of you who have been following my threads will realise I am inexperienced. But how am I to gain experience? That is why I value the advice offered by all members. I live in Shetland and find it difficult to contact like minded people.
To kennel or not to kennel seems to be the matter of personal opinion. I want to build a kennel - I agree with the breeze block construction - because I want a 'home from home' for my dogs. I have two bitches at the moment, but have hopes of owning a dog. I would like to breed my bitches and I am aware that there is a danger of being crowded from my own home. I share my home with my dogs and plan on continuing to do so. They are part of our family. They are housed in our garage when there is no one at home. I plan on building the kennel to continue this arrangement and to house our expanding family. I am aware of the difficulty of finding suitable homes for pups and my kennel plans are an attempt to deal with this problem. I do not plan on expanding the amount of unwanted pups. In fact I would make a home for any rescue deerhound dog that some of you experienced breeders consider would improve the breed.
I agree that any conscientious breeder should be trying to improve the breed. I hope to participate in the pleasures that some of you have been enjoying for more than 20 years. But most experienced breeders had to start at the bottom of the learning curve like myself. I welcome your advice.

Hi Survivor1, Sorry, but I'm in agreement with many of the others on this one regarding breeding from your two bitches. You really need to have gained some experience in the breed before considering taking a litter from your girls. How will you go about choosing a suitable stud dog and are you prepared to travel the length and breadth of the Uk to get a mating from that dog (and your bitch might not hold to that mating)?

If you buy a dog in have you considered that you would only be able to use him once or maybe twice on your own bitches(repeat matings are not recommended by the most experienced breeders). Love or hate showing, if you don't show at the Championship shows and with some success, what other breeder is going to use your dog? Showing is the shop window for the breed and allows other exhibitors and breeders to see your dog and assess his suitablilty for use on their bitches.

Breeding and rearing Deerhounds puppies is expensive and most breeders do it to maintain lines they have built up over many years and with the intention of keeping something from that litter (if it is good enough) to keep those lines going. The puppies will need to have had all their vaccinations and be liver shunt tested. How are you going to let prospective buyers know about your puppies and are pet people going to be prepared to travel to the Shetland Isles to buy a puppy? (the largest percentage of a Deerhound litter go to pet homes). What sort of after sales service are you able to provide.

I freely admit that we are very lucky in that where we live in the Midlands we have never had a problem with homing puppies but I know that in Scotland it is not so easy unless you are an established breeder with a good reputation in the world of Deerhounds. I know my breeder has a waiting list for her puppies but she is very successful and has been in the breed a very long time and she has an excellent reputation within the breed.

Sorry if this, and the other comments people have made is not what you wanted to hear but breeding is not to be taken lightly and it is not just a case of buying a couple of bitches and a stud dog and hey presto you are a Deerhound breeder. There is a lot more to it than meets the eye.