hi im thinking about one of these collers for fern
does any members advise them for recall or do you advise me againts them

Oh God no please dont even consider using one of these. They are NOT the solution for recall.

Use plenty of tasty treats (cheese, dried liver ect) and every time you get them back to you give them a small treat and praise them. You could even consider using a clicker but dont use one of those collars, especially not on a sensitive deerhound

thank you can you tell me why your so againt them

If you've never seen one used or dont know how to use one, then please find out
about them properly, as missused they can cause damage, used properly
they can be a good training aid,

They can be used for any training at all, i myself have never used one,
but know plenty of people who do and have had great sucess (sp) useing them,
but they have been trained to use them properly.

I will send you the link to a friend of mine in america,
hes the only one i would trust to give advice or help on the subject.

PLEEEEESE DONT USE AN ELECTRIC COLLAR !
Electric collars will cause pain & confusion to your dog & will effect him/her physically & mentally. The Kennel Club are leading a campain to try & ban outright this barbaric practice.
Sorry to be so blunt about this I just feel so strongly against them - nothing personnal, I just think that there are much kinder ways to train a dog & I'm sure that people on this forum will give lots of very helpful suggestions & tips.

Sorry Camuscuin - but used correctly they dont cause pain or confusion,
used wrongly they do, the Kc tbh i wouldnt trust them as far as i could throw them,
to give out acurate infomation, its not only the kc that trying to get them banned
but they rspca as well and look at them now, there up for investagation on animal crualty
after killing 10 gsd's with a bolt gun,

there are many miths sourending the e-collar, many were born when the e-collar first came out, as yes they were crual, due to the fact you only had a few settings high or low, and even the low sent a stimm out that was to high,
a friend of mine use's one as her lurcher has ran up to people and actualy nipped them,
even whereing the muzzle she could frighten someone, she did use this as a last resort
as all other training failed, due to the dda it was either try this or her dog could verry well have been pts, her dog is now off lead with out a muzzle and is actualy going up to strangers greeting them, except that shes now better round people, its not changed her one bit, shes still the dog she was,
for every bad report on e-collars theres plenty of good ones,
its only out of not knowing anything properly about them and the scare mongering
that go's on that people think of them as bad,
i have always said - if every other training methoud failed, i would have no quarms about useing one, but i would go to someone who knows what there doing to help me use it.

I'm just giving my opinion here with the best intensions meant. My limited experience of them is mainly that of a local person who uses an electric collar all of the time, each & every day. His little jack russel type dog gets zapped every time that he does something that the owner wants to stop eg he allows his dog to run off lead then when the dog runs up to another dog he gets a zap & another zap & another zap. The dog yelps in pain, then repeats whatever he was doing & gets zapped again ! This occurs each & every day & has gone on for a number of years now. All I can verify is that the dog obviously is in pain when he receives a shock, & the dog doesn't understand the reasons & therefore as a training tool used in this manner on this particular dog in my opinion has not only failed but causes pain to that dog. I also know of other dog owners who put an electronic collar on their dog when in the vacinity of sheep ( sheep are difficult to avoid where I live, they don't just stay in a field, they wonder along the roads etc )& would only use the electric shock treatment in an absolute emergancy , which is quite different to using it numerous times each day.
As I said, I am just offering an opinion here.

Sorry - but I simply cannot see any justification for ever using one of these collars

The original post was asking about using one for recall - for goodness sake, dont people realise that, like anything, time and effort have to be put into a dogs training! Why should we subject our dogs to electric collars when basic training is all that should be needed. Any breed of dog should be taught basic recall as a pup and it is still possible to teach older dogs recall too. If you have not got recall then dont let them off the lead!!

I took both Murray and Carys to puppy training classes and I now have well behaved and polite hounds as I had a huge responsibility to my hounds and other people and their dogs. I certainly do not want anyone to report me or my hounds for dangerous and irresponsible behaviour and to end up with maybe havig them PTS!

That bloke with the jack - i would report him quite frankly,
hes causeing un-nessaceraly (sp) suffering and crualty, and its not how an e-collar should be used at all, its people like him that give e-collars a bad name, actualy used correctly the dog shouldnt even show any sign its been used,

there is a video that shows a jack with an ecollar on,
there trying to find the working level of the dog,
its not a bad vid and does show you how a dog should react with one on.

A while ago, I also thought these collars were cruel. That is because I didn't understand how they worked. A friend that is a professional dog trainer explained them to me, and I even put one on my arm to see what it felt like.

There are about 120 "levels" of stimulation that the collar can produce. When I tried the collar, she turned it up through the levels very slowly. I got to level 11 before I could even feel ANYTHING and even then, it was just a very slight tingling. She said most dogs work at level 5!

They way it would be used to assist with recall for example, if the dog was running away from her and ignoring her calls, she would give a very slight stimulation to re-focus it's concentration, and then call the dog again. It is not a punishment, but a way of momentarily breaking a dog's "train of thought".

I then saw it used on a "problem dog" she had in training. It was excellent, and the dog was calm, relaxed and happy the entire time. It was certainly not in pain or confused.

Any type of training tool can be cruel if not used in the correct way, just look at the way some people use choker chains!!

If you choose to use one, please get a professional to show you how to use it correctly or you can do far more harm than good.

Or you could invest time in training Fern using a clicker..there should be NO NEED to use an e collar on her

camuscuin wrote:


That is not the proper way to use an e collar, that is plain abuse. And he should be reported.

I am just so glad that, due to proper training, my hounds WANT to come back to me. I am the pack leader and they do as they are asked - simple? NO! I invested a LOT of time training them (using a clicker) to be well mannered hounds that do not pose a risk to anyoneand want to be with me. Do I take them near livestock? NO! Because they are sighthounds. If I am ever in any doubt I put their leads on. I may be niaeve here but I believe it is the commonsense approach to train them properly from the start.

When I finally had the opportunity to have deerhounds as companions I saw it as a privilige and also a huge responsibility to keep both them, other dogs, livestock, children and people SAFE at all times. I want my dogs to be a source of pleasure to be with and I didn't want to end up as one of those owners that scream at the tail end of their dog as it is running away from them especially a very large sighthound.

thanks for your views illnot try the coller but im going to try the silent whisle fingers crossed

Houndy
i have two dogs that i can never ever let off lead, or they will be gone with in seconds,
as pups they were never on lead, due to the fact our garden used to open up in to fields,
once they reached maturaty that was it - recall was gone and no matter how much food you had on you or how much training you did, nothing compared to hunting up,
still even now at 13 they can not go off lead, they have spent now 12 years on lead, the only time they get to run is in the garden, luckaly they are only medium size and i have a large garden, bigger dog - smaller garden would be distarous, quite simpley, i would have rehomed them, if i knew about ecollars then - then yes i would have used one, theres no point now,
as there getting on in life and i dont have the funds to buy one, as the proper ones arnt that cheap,

Can i ask - what would you do if your dogs took off after something or hunted up,
you have to remember these are hunting dogs, and it is verry difficult to ever stop a hunting dog from giving chase, once the mist is down there there focused thats it there gone,basic recall is not enough, even clicker training wouldnt stop a dog if it decided to take off.

So far i am lucky with Layla, but i am not daft - i know that at any time the switch could kick in and she would be off after what ever shes seen, my lurcher has already took off after a deer - luckaly the training i have done, with a lurcher man - she recalled with in seconds, but what if she hadnt of recalled, i would have had a dead dog now, as the deer was heading towards a main road, btw we was supprised by the deer and didnt know it was there.

buckiebilly wrote:


Dont bother with the silent whistle - there crap.
if you want to whistle train, try the acme 210 i think it is,
i use a bone whistle - as its different from what the gun dog owners round hear have,
and shes starting to know the difference with the pitch, so isnt responding to there whistleing anymore.

buckiebilly wrote:


I am so glad to hear that you are not going to use the e collar but before using a silent whistle you have got to get Fern to realsie that it is worth her while to come back to you - hence using rewards in the form of tasty treats. The whistle is just the command. Any training should be reward based - whistle=command, treat = her reward for returning to you + lots of fuss and praise

chook wrote:


Firstly, the post was about the use of e collars
Secondly, as I do actually own deerhounds and have also owned lurchers most of my life I DO 'remember' that they are hunting hounds
If you read my post carefully you will see that i wrote 'if I am unsure I put them on their leads'
Maybe I am fortunate. I am not saying for 1 minute that my dogs are perfect as they are not but the emphasis of my post was that I do not believe that e collars should be used at all - MY opinion - to which I am entitled to

I quite agree & have asked this person not to use this collar in this manner, & suggested that he simply keep his dog on a lead. He does now put his dog on a lead when/if he see's me walking my 2 dogs otherwise I would report him .BUT too many other local people have told me that they are still seeing this being used by this same person in this same cruel manner elsewhere, & so I've suggested they speak to him as I did.

chook wrote:


Maybe instead of saying that something like a silent whistle is 'crap' it maybe helpful to give the poster some constructive advice as thats what they came on here for